Penal battalions weren't just "cannon fodder". They were often well equipped, much better than your run of the line strelki.
Where did you get this ?
Penal Battalion a completely different approach
27 Dec 2015, 12:42 PM
#21
Posts: 275 | Subs: 1
I do not like reworking of conscripts. They are sort balanced.
Where did you get this ?
Where did you get this ?
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
27 Dec 2015, 12:45 PM
#22
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Im only one that like 6 men flametrower squad ?
27 Dec 2015, 13:33 PM
#23
Posts: 1487
that topic just a clinic. Maybe devs of this game will like it though
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27 Dec 2015, 21:48 PM
#24
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
27 Dec 2015, 21:59 PM
#25
Posts: 410
DP Guards are long range infantry...Penals with double Far DPS would still not be long range infantry...
1 - It's a commander call-in
2 - It doesn't fulfill the long dps role in late game that you need.
USF have rifles with bars
UKF have tommies with brens
OST have Lmg grens
OKW have Obers with upgrade
SOV have to use a commander call in and it's the worst unit for AI long range in this list.
27 Dec 2015, 22:05 PM
#26
Posts: 521
Why should we change Conscripts?
Maybe give Penals access to TM-35 mines at vet 2 or 3.
Maybe give Penals access to TM-35 mines at vet 2 or 3.
27 Dec 2015, 22:26 PM
#27
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
... and one thing, what does happen to the at-nade, i dont really get what you want to do with it.
Glad to see you find the idea interesting the idea. There many thing that can be done about AT grenades. At grenades should probably remain on conscripts but without ourah they will have a more defensive role against crushing and protect other units from circle strafe.
Penal could get them and use with ourah and in that case ourah should probably make them more vulnerable.
A totally different approach would be to allow penal to climb on enemy tanks and built explosives on the tank taking more damage during the building process. They could then get jump of and detonated them causing some sort critical damage.
The concept is that Penal should be able to perform high risk/reward tasks.
27 Dec 2015, 22:35 PM
#28
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
.
USF have rifles with bars
.
Rifles as Penal use semi automatic weapons that are good close to mid. Bar is also not great at long range. Making Penal long range would mean they would have to come with bolts action rifles, and replace the flamer with lmg upgrade.
Why should we change Conscripts?
As I explained before conscript have so much utility that Penal will always compare pale to them.
One could give more utility to Penals but then they would overlap or else one would have go overboard with their DPS to make more attractive.
The current performance of Penal is not that bad and they would be used allot more if one did not have to built T1 to get them even with no other change...What currently makes them unattractive is the T1 and the luck of an AT snare...
In my approach they have different roles and allows abilities like merge to become more attractive since the entities will be cheaper.
27 Dec 2015, 22:56 PM
#29
Posts: 1891
Soviets are doing fine rn. Penals do need a role change, but I think this can be established with stat changes or swapping ROK-3 for a DP-28 or PPSH.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
27 Dec 2015, 23:18 PM
#30
Posts: 4928
They where also used as canon fodder and not as semi elite infantries. They where even used to walk over minefields.
Don't ask me about the minefields but the officers that sent them...
This is a largely a myth. Soviet Commanders would order attacks over minefields if casualty projections from the mine fields were less than attacking the fortifications head on. As a Soviet Officer, a casualty was a casualty, whether it be by mine, mortar, or bullet. It's probable that Penal Troops took part in attacks like these, it wasn't necessarily exclusive to them, ordinary Infantry did the same.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Dec 2015, 05:57 AM
#31
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedI'd like to see penals become like ostruppen, but with explosives and flamethrowers.
28 Dec 2015, 08:04 AM
#32
Posts: 258
Make Penals start with Mosin rifles and choose between upgrades - Flamer+Satchels(these need to be fixed vs garrisons) for short range assault and SVT-40s+Hold the line ability(buffs to dps and rec acc but the unit cant retreat until ability ends) for long range and give same dps to svt-40 like before Penals nerf.
28 Dec 2015, 10:05 AM
#33
Posts: 954
Make Penal the soviet ost-troopen...... dirt cheap and swarm the enemy
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think
28 Dec 2015, 10:11 AM
#34
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Make Penal the soviet ost-troopen...... dirt cheap and swarm the enemy
Squad like this already exists....
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Dec 2015, 10:21 AM
#35
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Squad like this already exists....
Conscripts are 20% more expensive than ostturppen and at the same price as grenadiers...
28 Dec 2015, 10:35 AM
#36
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Conscripts are 20% more expensive than ostturppen and at the same price as grenadiers...
And perform just like osttruppen, except cons are much worse on long range.
8 con builds have proven already that 40mp cost makes no difference for sov here.
You're trying to change squad that needs nothing more then long range dps boost into a squad that already exists, but would be even worse.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Dec 2015, 10:37 AM
#37
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
6-man cheap to build, cheap to reinforce squad with a flamer, satchel and oorah @vet2? I would buy that for a dollar!
28 Dec 2015, 12:06 PM
#38
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Make Penals start with Mosin rifles and choose between upgrades - Flamer+Satchels(these need to be fixed vs garrisons) for short range assault and SVT-40s+Hold the line ability(buffs to dps and rec acc but the unit cant retreat until ability ends) for long range and give same dps to svt-40 like before Penals nerf.
That would make them even more useless.
28 Dec 2015, 12:14 PM
#39
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
And perform just like osttruppen, except cons are much worse on long range.
8 con builds have proven already that 40mp cost makes no difference for sov here.
You're trying to change squad that needs nothing more then long range dps boost into a squad that already exists, but would be even worse.
No they don't. Osttruppen are defensively oriented and good ONLY in cover and have a target size 15% bigger . Conscript are mobile and good in mid range.
Are seriously comparing a 8 squad built of Con with an 8 Squad built of Ost from a economical point of view?
For the same price Ostr could have more than 1,5 more squads and they can reinforce for 3/4 of the price...
A long DPS increase on Penals would not help allot since their upgrade flamer has a range of 20, so they lose 20% of their long DPS when they upgrade, they are designed to fight at mid and not far...
It would also not make more attractive since conscripts have allot more utility. Penals can not replace conscripts as the main line infantry and there is little point going t1 to built 1 or 2 of them.
As explain before making Penals attractive is not that easy as long as conscripts have so much utility and Penals have a tech cost.
28 Dec 2015, 12:21 PM
#40
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
If Penals could plant, let's say somekind of AI mines (which can shock vehicles), they could recive that utility.
Penals have smiliar problem to Assault Grens. They are only useful at close range, but they don't have enough survability to assault. Sure, there is hoorah but it's locked at vet 2.
Plus, SVT is way weaker than G43.
Penals have smiliar problem to Assault Grens. They are only useful at close range, but they don't have enough survability to assault. Sure, there is hoorah but it's locked at vet 2.
Plus, SVT is way weaker than G43.
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