Panzerfussiliers

A lot of units' pop cost needs to be changed.It seems like relic made mistakes when they reworked the pop cost last patch.

Ponieers 6 pop (should be 5,increasing the pop makes the tiger/ele pop cost decreasing no sense)
Shocktroops 8 pop (should be 9 at the very least)
Panzerfusilier 6 pop (should be 8)
Partisans 4 pop (should be 6)
MG34 4 pop (should be 5 or 6,at least 5)
Artillery officer 9 pop (should be 8, 9 is too much for this squard)

2 BARs also have higher opportunity cost because of research requirement and Zooks. Rifles also have 5 men while Panzerfusiliers have 6, and bonus sight with the upgrade. As of right now you pay 30 munitions for each G43; all things considered it should be 40, or at least 35.

AT snare on Panzerfusiliers needs to be made a Faust ability, problem solved there.

Nerf the rifles first I will then agree with you.

The only nerf could be used on pfusiliers is the increasing of pop cost. But no more.Don't nerf a unit which is not OP.

Nerf the rifles first I will then agree with you.

The only nerf could be used on pfusiliers is the increasing of pop cost. But no more.Don't nerf a unit which is not OP.

Yeah I could only agree with bringing their popcap to 8. Making them more expensive or nerfing them would have to mean rifles vet 3 should get nerfed, or panzerfussiliers get buffed to be as durable as riflemen.

Is currently one of the most cost efficient upgrade in the game...

What he means is that it isn't as much of an absolute upgrade than the other weapon upgrades, even out of other closer-range combat upgrades. Thompsons improve DPS on Paras outside of around range 25+, G43s and Infrared StGs basically improve DPS at all ranges aside from max range, but Con PPShes only improve DPS around range <15...so correspondingly, a lower cost is not unjustifiable when the option innately has more of a tradeoff to choosing it than other upgrades outside of the cost consideration.

Fussiliers are anything but elite. They are like riflemen, except rifles scale better with double upgrades.

G43s are only good for mid range, because majority of allied weapons will be better at close range anyway..

sturmpionners cost 9 popcap that also should be looked at it should be 6 or 7

What he means is that it isn't as much of an absolute upgrade than the other weapon upgrades, even out of other closer-range combat upgrades

I know exactly what he means but he is trying to present what is actually a good thing as bad.

The PPsh upgrade increase the DPS up to range 10 about 4 times so its actually taking long DPS away but giving allot more close DPS in return. And why is that a plus and not a con? Because most Axis infantries are better at long fight then Con and Con have also ourah to close the distance. So instead of mediocre improvement in all ranges, that would offer them no clear advantage in any range, they get a clear advantage in close range where they can win against most axis infantries...

On the other hand the G43 only slightly increase the long range DPS of P.F. and the biggest improvement is in close range, spreading their DPS over all ranges...

Thompson upgrade and Ppsh make both units very good at close range and are both are extremely cost efficient upgrades...

I would rather get 4 Thompson for 90 munition on P.F. then 3 g43 any day...

Pop cap seem to be a bit mess up. pio to high shock to low...

sturmpionners cost 9 popcap that also should be looked at it should be 6 or 7

Any reason why PG level infantry should have gren pop or less except "I'm rabid fanboy, heil victory!" one?

Any reason why PG level infantry should have gren pop or less except "I'm rabid fanboy, heil victory!" one?

Theres actually quite a lot of reasons why. The main reason is, I would say, that they aren't actually PG level infantry. If you had a PG level starting squad, then I am sure there would be very many more OKW OP threads. You should notice however, that for all the complaining, sturm ps are not featured in these threads at all. The fact that they fulfill a kind of similar role in the early stage of the game, does not mean they are PG level infantry. It just means they fulfill a similar role. Some other reasons include:

1) PZ grens are more effective with more dmg and have late game scaling other than just repairing. Granted they do have vet 5, but that is realistically quite difficult to reach. Pzgrens have better scaling because of the possibility to upgrade schrecks.
2) They are a repair and sweeper unit, no other unit like that has such a high pop cost. Sure they deserve a higher pop cost, but not 9. You are being punished for having something essential in your army.
3) It makes sturm pioneer heavy openings less viable
4) Also makes Feuersturm shittier than it actually has to be.

If you had a PG level starting squad..

Actually, they are very similar to vet 0 PG. DPS is almost identical, while SP are slightly more squishy and cheaper. The rest of your points are correct though, and I agree that 9 pop is too high for an engineer unit.

Just the 147589....th "OKW OP" thread.
And half of them belongs to the same creator.

Just the 147589....th "OKW OP" thread.
And half of them belongs to the same creator.

Go ahead, show me where I said they are OP.

I'm waiting

Go ahead, show me where I said they are OP.

I'm waiting

I got it, the forrest is not OP, the trees are.

why cant 280mp 60 muni infantry beat 290 mp 90 muni inf at all ranges, despite having superior durability and overall better fighting capability.

Allied baseline infantry > panzerfussiliers

Buncha hypocrites hahaha.

you left out anything Soviet.... penals, cons...

omitting information to prove a point... hypocrite

most people here are not talking about changing their damage... just pop cost and reinforce cost...
they'll still admirably in battle but a little less spammable

as for flares... you know vision is like one of the most important things in RTS, right? pretty good for OKW now that they have 100% munitions. riflemen only get them with easy 8 doctrine? that doctrine... rear echelon with flamers and fire it up... i just don't see it much anymore.

I know exactly what he means but he is trying to present what is actually a good thing as bad.

The PPsh upgrade increase the DPS up to range 10 about 4 times so its actually taking long DPS away but giving allot more close DPS in return. And why is that a plus and not a con? Because most Axis infantries are better at long fight then Con and Con have also ourah to close the distance. So instead of mediocre improvement in all ranges, that would offer them no clear advantage in any range, they get a clear advantage in close range where they can win against most axis infantries...

Because it actually is a con unlike the other weapon upgrades. A con that can be dealt with along aside other factors including a distinct pro, but a con nonetheless. BARs improve DPS at all range, LMG42s improve DPS aside from like range 3 (lul), Conscript PPShes however reduce their DPS for around a figure of 20 in the ranges they can shoot at infantry. Other factors can easily alleviate this con, but it exists nonetheless, distinct from other AI weapon upgrades.

Actually, they are very similar to vet 0 PG. DPS is almost identical, while SP are slightly more squishy and cheaper. The rest of your points are correct though, and I agree that 9 pop is too high for an engineer unit.

Nah, that was a while ago. For now, SPs' StG44s have noticeably inferior mid-range DPS to PGs'.

Because it actually is a con unlike the other weapon upgrades. A con that can be dealt with along aside other factors including a distinct pro, but a con nonetheless. BARs improve DPS at all range, LMG42s improve DPS aside from like range 3 (lul), Conscript PPShes however reduce their DPS for around a figure of 20 in the ranges they can shoot at infantry. Other factors can easily alleviate this con, but it exists nonetheless, distinct from other AI weapon upgrades.

Like the flamer that reduces range to 20 and most LMG that reduce moving DPS to 0, or Thompson upgrade that reduces DPS far, or the Bazooka, shreck, or the G43 that does nothing to far DPS of Gren and reduce the close DPS of PG....actually is rather common for weapon upgrades to come with a drawback...

Different weapon profiles are better at different ranges thus upgrades that change weapon profile might reduce effectiveness in some ranges that does not make a con. Simply a different profile.

you left out anything Soviet.... penals, cons...

omitting information to prove a point... hypocrite

most people here are not talking about changing their damage... just pop cost and reinforce cost...
they'll still admirably in battle but a little less spammable

as for flares... you know vision is like one of the most important things in RTS, right? pretty good for OKW now that they have 100% munitions. riflemen only get them with easy 8 doctrine? that doctrine... rear echelon with flamers and fire it up... i just don't see it much anymore.

Conscripts are hella more durable than panzerfussiliers.

Conscripts dont cost 290 mp and 90 munitions.

If panzerfussiliers are spammable, then sections and riflemen are as well. Because they cost the same. Cept IS and riflemen are significantly more durable, and for 30 more munitions, can dual equip. And win hands down vs panzerfussiliers.

Conscripts are hella more durable than panzerfussiliers.

Conscripts dont cost 290 mp and 90 munitions.

If panzerfussiliers are spammable, then sections and riflemen are as well. Because they cost the same. Cept IS and riflemen are significantly more durable, and for 30 more munitions, can dual equip. And win hands down vs panzerfussiliers.

LAWL, no one can take you seriously anymore. Conscripts are mainly screen support and super squishy until vet 3.

i don't think anyone will agree with you that conscripts>fussiliers
any takers? anyone else?

UKF and USF have strong infantry yes but they also don't have a mobile artillery counter like Stuka and panzerwerfer (save calliope, doctrinal and needs to be bought). So if you were smart... flares and fussiliers screen against allied blob, and then stuka.

Conscripts are hella more durable than panzerfussiliers.

Conscripts dont cost 290 mp and 90 munitions.

If panzerfussiliers are spammable, then sections and riflemen are as well. Because they cost the same. Cept IS and riflemen are significantly more durable, and for 30 more munitions, can dual equip. And win hands down vs panzerfussiliers.

2-3 volks and 4 pfussies is valid BO.
I've played it myself and I've played against it many times.

When I see USF player going for more then 4 rifles, I'm just laughing for the short game and free win I'm about to score, exactly the same if someone tries to get 4 or more tommy squads.

You know why?

Because there is something more then just initial cost, for this reason 10 con strats work, but 10 gren strats are suicide.

There are tech costs, there are model reinforce costs(which both, rifles and tommies have considerably higher then pfussies), there is synergy with other units, that other units costs, timing etc.

Yes, pfussies are spmmable, rifles and tommies are not for the reasons above.