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russian armor

defensive doctrin

21 Dec 2015, 18:18 PM
#21
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

Soviet Defensive tactics is one of my favorite Soviet doctrines. It is absolute death for anyone who thinks 1 sweeper is enough to deal with the mini AI mines. The rest of the doctrine is weak though, and falls apart against anyone who realises that you can make more than 1 sweeper.

I would suggest:
-Leave DHSK, 120mm mortar and AI mines as is.
-Make the M42 at gun 1cp. Give it a vet ability that allows it to dig-in for cammo and a damage/pen bonus when attacking out of cammo. This ability would fit the defensive theme and can not be used offensively.
-Turn tanktraps into "reinforced defences" or something and make it include tanktraps, reinforced barbed wire instead of regular wire and Soviet bunkers.

These changes would make the doctrine more flavourfull.

21 Dec 2015, 19:12 PM
#22
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Dushka remains.

Give them soviet bunker (200 mp with 60 munny upgrade for mg) with tanktraps and mines in one slot.

Make m42 copypaste of USA at gun without abilites and with 240 MP cost

Add kv2

Dushka the same

Mortar the same
21 Dec 2015, 21:43 PM
#23
avatar of Iron Emperor

Posts: 1653

Soviet Defensive tactics is one of my favorite Soviet doctrines. It is absolute death for anyone who thinks 1 sweeper is enough to deal with the mini AI mines. The rest of the doctrine is weak though, and falls apart against anyone who realises that you can make more than 1 sweeper.

I would suggest:
-Leave DHSK, 120mm mortar and AI mines as is.
-Make the M42 at gun 1cp. Give it a vet ability that allows it to dig-in for cammo and a damage/pen bonus when attacking out of cammo. This ability would fit the defensive theme and can not be used offensively.
-Turn tanktraps into "reinforced defences" or something and make it include tanktraps, reinforced barbed wire instead of regular wire and Soviet bunkers.

These changes would make the doctrine more flavourfull.



Personal note: Yes those fucking AI mines hurt as hell, 1 sweeper is just not going to put you through it.
21 Dec 2015, 22:18 PM
#24
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

i really like most of your suggestions, also the fact that this is an interesting topic for you guys!
but i still like to see a better pen for the dshk, even its one amazing machinegun. its punishing blobbing so hard :clap: luchs has 13mm armor, but dshk cant even scratch it with AP rounds. seems legit :help:
21 Dec 2015, 22:30 PM
#25
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

i really like most of your suggestions, also the fact that this is an interesting topic for you guys!
but i still like to see a better pen for the dshk, even its one amazing machinegun. its punishing blobbing so hard :clap: luchs has 13mm armor, but dshk cant even scratch it with AP rounds. seems legit :help:


DHsK AP rounds are pretty useless, they can only poke halftracks and armored cars
22 Dec 2015, 09:31 AM
#26
avatar of strafniki

Posts: 558 | Subs: 1

yep, thats why i dont agree with "Dushka remains." <444>_<444>
29 Feb 2016, 22:00 PM
#27
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

Sorry to dig this up. I made a little mod that reworks the commander, using a lot of ideas from this thread:

1CP: Advanced Defenses - Tank traps, PMD-6 mines, DShK-38 MG Nest (200 MP/60 Mun)
3CP: Conscript DP-28 (Same stats as for Guards, but only one for 40 Mun)
5CP: AT gun camouflage
7CP: Incendiary artillery
10CP: KV-1 (significantly buffed)

I put in on the Workshop, so feel free to try it out and if you do, please give some feedback!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=635567216
29 Feb 2016, 22:50 PM
#28
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

If you are going to tweak that commander, then I insist on doing the same for my Axis counterpart.
29 Feb 2016, 22:59 PM
#29
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

If you are going to tweak that commander, then I insist on doing the same for my Axis counterpart.

i support you but that statement just sounds sooooo wrong:luvDerp:
29 Feb 2016, 23:04 PM
#30
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1


i support you but that statement just sounds sooooo wrong:luvDerp:

Can't fix Jaeger Infantry Doctrine, 'cause NKVD Rifle is bad.
Phy
29 Feb 2016, 23:14 PM
#31
avatar of Phy

Posts: 509 | Subs: 1

I wish a buff woul be made, but it's not gonna happen because it's free.
1 Mar 2016, 01:43 AM
#32
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2015, 12:24 PMF1sh
I reworked this doctrine a while back with my own ideas:



No more Dushka because of bunkers, no more M-42 because of TM-44, and the heavy mortar ain't that good anyway.


I would still like to see the M-42 in the doctrine. It's a shame, I like the unit (in concept) but it is just terrible in every way. They need to give it the puppchen treatment and make it actually useful as a viable at option in contrast to the zis. Give it some more utility through abilities like the puppchen has (I don't mean exactly what the puppchen has). It seems like what they were going for was a commander to replace t2 in t1 heavy builds, but it doesn't work out because of lackluster at performance.

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Feb 2016, 23:04 PMVuther

Can't fix Jaeger Infantry Doctrine, 'cause NKVD Rifle is bad.

1 Mar 2016, 01:52 AM
#33
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 01:43 AMTobis

Me too. I just don't like how I'm never actually going to be able to have the munitions to use all of it :foreveralone:
1 Mar 2016, 02:13 AM
#34
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 01:52 AMVuther

Me too. I just don't like how I'm never actually going to be able to have the munitions to use all of it :foreveralone:


I find it useful on some maps where it's not terribly difficult to take both munitions points, like kholodny. G43s are good there too. It's worth taking against soviets if you can hold the muni points. G43s help with the one near the hedge.
1 Mar 2016, 05:45 AM
#35
avatar of Mistah_S

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 01:52 AMVuther

Me too. I just don't like how I'm never actually going to be able to have the munitions to use all of it :foreveralone:


"Nothing like a treck through the countryside! Just wish it wasnt this country"
"Squad shut it!"
"Oh marching!? We LIVE for FUCKING marching!"
1 Mar 2016, 05:58 AM
#36
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

My personal take on it would be to roll bunkers, Tank Traps and the little mines together in one package. Give it a KV-1 for some late-game power to fill the slot, buff the DSHK AP rounds to not shit levels, drop the mortar popcost and make the AT gun also reliably snipe infantry, like a T70 cannon in the form of a team weapon. The M42 is never going to be useful as long as the ZiS is more easily accessible.
1 Mar 2016, 09:21 AM
#37
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2184 | Subs: 2

M42 has a 53-Sch-240 case-shot. Add it as a 1 veterancy ability. increase penetration.
1 Mar 2016, 11:29 AM
#38
avatar of Planet Smasher
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 632 | Subs: 1

I thought about leaving the M-42 in. With a pen buff it might actually be viable, since it has a good rate of fire and is dirt cheap. A bit of AOE damage to help against infantry would be nice, but I think it would need a price increase then.
I'll give it a try, will probably leave out the AT gun camo for that.

Other crappy commanders like German Defensive, Joint Operations, Soviet NKVD, Urban Defense, USF Recon and Mechanized are definitely on my list, but I'm still not sure which one to do next!
1 Mar 2016, 11:34 AM
#39
avatar of Blend

Posts: 7

currently i am playing a lot with the sov. def. doctrin, but it seems a bit strange.

dshk penetration seems to suck a lot. AP rounds are crap compared to MG42 ones. (do they actually work..?)

the tanktraps are also a bit of a joke aswell, because USF has non doctrinal ones at 0 CP.

i would also love to see the 45mm AT at 1CP tbh.

what are your opinions on it?


I would love to see Relic make the M-42 like a Rakketen form the OKW. I don't want it to be able to go stealth, but that the M-42 can be in buildings. Since in the game its suppose to be a smaller version of the ZIS 30.
1 Mar 2016, 12:12 PM
#40
avatar of F1sh

Posts: 521

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Mar 2016, 01:43 AMTobis


I would still like to see the M-42 in the doctrine. It's a shame, I like the unit (in concept) but it is just terrible in every way. They need to give it the puppchen treatment and make it actually useful as a viable at option in contrast to the zis. Give it some more utility through abilities like the puppchen has (I don't mean exactly what the puppchen has). It seems like what they were going for was a commander to replace t2 in t1 heavy builds, but it doesn't work out because of lackluster at performance.


Could switch IL-2 loiter to M-42.

I often use Urban Defense doctrine in automatch, and the M-42 isn't so terrible. At 200 MP each, you can get two of them and keep them in pairs. Good early game vs light vehicles, but sadly becomes terrible once medium tanks hit the field. I think it should be a highly maneuverable AT gun. It should have the sprint ability that the British AT gun has, and increase penetration.
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