50. Cal and Vickers vs OKW

I'm by no means an expert on this, so if anyone knows more I'd like to hear their opinion.

Spent around 15 months as a M2 gunner, and I'm pretty sure I can speak for anyone who's ever been a 50-gunner in saying you'd be told in a heartbeat to fuck off and die in a fire if you told me I had to lug that thing around on foot. M2+tripod weights around 120-130lbs (~55KG). Each 100 round can of ammo comes in at around another 30-35lbs. The way it's employed in game is laughable from a real-world perspective.

In-game however, I love using the 50 to support rifle pushes/hold a position temporarily.

I've been saying this forever there is no comparison when it comes to suppression for the mg42 and 34 vs 50 cal and vickers. Especially the mg42 is very capable of pining 3 or 4 squads at a time easily, the vickers and 50 cal just dont, even if you are microing and telling to fire at other squads in its arc that are not pined yet.

As USF I feel because of this I never make the 50 cal ( for one it comes out too late) especially because with ost mortar and okw lieg you won't be able to field it long anyway because you have no counter indirect fire. Same with the vickers and its short but wide cone which is nice, but it fails to pin volks mobs fast enough one always gets off an incendiary nade and its wipe city. Only reason I make it is because the wasp was over nerfed and you have to make it for brits to survive or at least put up a fight opening battles.

EDIT: ALso epsecially as USF i find it better to just invest in early nades and rifles to take out axis mgs and mortars I cant tell you how many times stealing axis support weapon has ALWAYS been worth it. It's is also just plain funny locking down your fuel or a vp with there own stolen mg or wiping squads with there own mortar.

The 50. cal gets wiped so fast its not a very good counter to the blob

Wrong, they are an excellent counter to blobs. Machine guns are support units designed to suppress blobs and limit the movment of units on the field - not kill them. Support units should be on the backline, as they require line of sight to fully maimize their range potential. They should not taking the brunt of enemy fire, that`s what frontline units are for! Using a 50 cal without proper sight is improper usage from my perspective.

During an infantry fight the 50cal should be just behind your infantry doing one of the following: firing suppression volley into the brawl to turn the tide in your favor, watching a chokepoint to prevent a flank, limiting movement as to funnel your opponent into your rifleman`s killzone or lastly - providing a fallback for your mainline infantry. Basically, i`m advocating that you a-move it behind your main infantry force and use it as a force multiplier.

You can`t really compare the 50 cal to the MG42 - as it is an exception. The entire whermacht early game is typically designed around the MG42.So the MG42 needs to be able to suppress quickly on its own, otherwise the entire ostheer army would fall apart to allied pressure. In contrast the entire US army is designed around the rifle man, thus anything that isn`t a rifle man, is designed to force multiply the rifleman.

Hey,

I've played a large amount of 2v2's lately with Otto & Empire as allies and we find that the MG's of the allied forces (specially UKF Vickers and 50. Cal USF) isn't cutting it. Is there nothing like AOE suppression? What's the point of having an MG (even with spotters) that does not pin squads even if the MG starts firing when the blobs of doom enter the cone of fire?

Don't get me wrong, this aint no 'NERF OKW BUF ALLIES' topic, I just want to see how you guys feel about this. Should the Vickers and 50. Cal suppress faster to discourage blob-play?

My feeling is that disvantages of Vickers are bigger than its advantages.....in my opinion 90% of players would choose a HMG that suppresses any and all squads entering in his cone of fire as MG42 does.


Yeah those bonuses when garrisoned are great, but again, I think 90% of players would give those bonuses if they receive more suppresion to squads in its cone of fire.


When do you buy a HMG???? most of the time, when you want to deny some map area to the enemy or when you want to counter blobs.....in this case, properties of MG42 are the best ones.

just my noob opinion.

My feeling is that disvantages of Vickers are bigger than its advantages.....in my opinion 90% of players would choose a HMG that suppresses any and all squads entering in his cone of fire as MG42 does.


Yeah those bonuses when garrisoned are great, but again, I think 90% of players would give those bonuses if they receive more suppresion to squads in its cone of fire.


When do you buy a HMG???? most of the time, when you want to deny some map area to the enemy or when you want to counter blobs.....in this case, properties of MG42 are the best ones.

just my noob opinion.

Never ever trusted MG42 AoE suppression, usually manually shooting every squad at a time with it to keep them suppressed. I do the same thing with Vickers. When used microed like this the Vickers is by Far better as long as target is not in green cover you know always that small burst with vickers will suppress with delay it but on MG42 you need to shoot until the squad is in suppression. You can click trough squads a lot faster with vicker because it doesn't stop to reload so fast and it doesnt shoot so long bursts. --> IF you can micro Vickers is a lot better. Without any micro MG42 is better.

50 Cal works just fine, can't say much about the Vickers.

50 Cal works just fine, can't say much about the Vickers.

Unless its doubled in road to kharkov buildings (one left and one right) followed by fast sutart and lmg riflemen bloberino.

I can´t say about it fine , but it is not problem of 50.cal It is problem of bugged leight , bugged flakweapons and bad map

Never ever trusted MG42 AoE suppression, usually manually shooting every squad at a time with it to keep them suppressed. I do the same thing with Vickers. When used microed like this the Vickers is by Far better as long as target is not in green cover you know always that small burst with vickers will suppress with delay it but on MG42 you need to shoot until the squad is in suppression. You can click trough squads a lot faster with vicker because it doesn't stop to reload so fast and it doesnt shoot so long bursts. --> IF you can micro Vickers is a lot better. Without any micro MG42 is better.

Hummm great point mate. Thanks.

Didnt know it and tbh I usually dont order my mg which target has to aim except if I see a flamethrower or smthing like this.

Unless its doubled in road to kharkov buildings (one left and one right) followed by fast sutart and lmg riflemen bloberino.

I can´t say about it fine , but it is not problem of 50.cal It is problem of bugged leight , bugged flakweapons and bad map

.50 Cal and stuart? Just T1 and T2? I usually thought people go for one or the other.

OKW Flak weapons have gone a long way... from shooting down all types of aircraft (base defense and HQ)

Also when flak auto killed garrisoned units...

.50 Cal and stuart? Just T1 and T2? I usually thought people go for one or the other.

OKW Flak weapons have gone a long way... from shooting down all types of aircraft (base defense and HQ)

Also when flak auto killed garrisoned units...

dont get me wrong but I tested in on semski and luchs will take semosky hous near river down to 90 % hile riflemen in that house will still have like 40 % of life

Could you provide some specific reasoning as to why the Vickers should be more expensive than the HMG42? You've listed the roles the different HMG play, but not stated why the Vickers should be more expensive.

I genuinely curious to understand the justification.

Like I say the discrepancy bugs me far more than it should and I'd like to know why people think its acceptable.

I value it's stopping power against infantry. Killing infantry models directly translates to economic damage against the enemy. People also make it sound like the Vickers can't suppress for shit but I find it able to suppress on the 2nd burst most of the time. Plus once you vet it up it gets insane range. Use the engineers destroy cover ability to clear line of sight for Vickers in structures, and make trenches if there are no structures around

People also make it sound like the Vickers can't suppress for shit but I find it able to suppress on the 2nd burst most of the time.

See though, that's what people thought about the HMG42 when it did that too...though I more find the Vickers suppresses slower and takes more of its first burst to do so compared to the HMG42 rather than requiring 2 bursts generally.

The raw damage output and burst length is longer on the vickers, its insignifant, but the vickers crew is also several times better than the mg42 crew. The range increase it gets is insane at vet1. If the vickers were better than the mg42 at everything is would be both OP and stupid.

The very thought of ww1 garbage being better than the mg42 for 20 mp more is amusing.

The very thought of ww1 garbage being better than the mg42 for 20 mp more is amusing.

Then make it 260MP, not complicated.

Then make it 260MP, not complicated.

No issues here.

the m2hb in the game is more of a stand in for the much lighter and common m1919a4.

if you just change the model and sound it actually wouldn't make much of a difference.

This. Historically, the .50 would shred infantry and slice up light armor. Relic should have made it as you said, or the M1917. Still cheeses me Relic makes the MG42 with 7.62mm (with AP) to kill light armor, but the .50 (12.7mm for EU folk) doesn't do squat in this game.

This. Historically, the .50 would shred infantry and slice up light armor. Relic should have made it as you said, or the M1917. Still cheeses me Relic makes the MG42 with 7.62mm (with AP) to kill light armor, but the .50 (12.7mm for EU folk) doesn't do squat in this game.

But DShKa... DShKa is 12.7 too! Can we discuss its problems here too, or we will continue to talk about capitalistic machineguns and pretend like DShKa never existed in CoH2?

But DShKa... DShKa is 12.7 too! Can we discuss its problems here too, or we will continue to talk about capitalistic machineguns and pretend like DShKa never existed in CoH2?

Dshka is actually really good, you should try it out. Pop it in a building, and it wrecks everything. I think it got ninja buffed a while ago, but can't remember.

but I find it able to suppress on the 2nd burst most of the time

.50 is the only one which sucks. It should Rekt ass for that cost and timing.