OKW is completely out of control

Allies still op in 4v4s

but people is asking to move then to sturmpios, not to remove them.


sturmpios, available from start, raketen too available on T0.


sooooo, or I´m missing something or your explanation is not good enough.

Sturmpios need to keep their AI capabilities throughout the game so I disagree with moving shrecks to them. Also, in feuersturm doctrine they have the flamer upgrade.

More than this, sturmpios it's a unit that already have plenty of tasks: repair, field defences, mines, AI unit. Giving them also an AT role, would be unfair and overwhelming for them. And their task number would be blatantly unbalanced compared to volks.

but people is asking to move then to sturmpios, not to remove them.

sturmpios, available from start, raketen too available on T0.

sooooo, or I´m missing something or your explanation is not good enough.

Units with AT weapons eating vet. So after 2-3 shots, stumrs will be insta vet 5.

vet 5 sturms are able to solo shocktroops.

Not imagine vet 5 schreck sturmpios covered by tanks, constantly repairing armor and destroying any inf at close range.

People keep suggest Shreks goes to SP, well when u see more than 2 SP on the field, so it is pretty much limit OKW only get 2-3 shreks, then USF's zooks weapon cache should be removed to let USF only have captain have 2 zooks and give captain 1 and M20 crew have 1.. fair enough. LOL

Sure thing, just make sure to make panther, KT and JT no more armored and with the same HP as pershing

Idea is to have no AT spam for OKW, because cost effectiveness of that is utterly broken.

Do you see ost blobs with 4 shrecked PGs running around? No? Then that is the goal.

Why do you need 8 shrecks on the field anyway unless you blob hard like a scrub?

Units with AT weapons eating vet. So after 2-3 shots, stumrs will be insta vet 5.

vet 5 sturms are able to solo shocktroops.

Not imagine vet 5 schreck sturmpios covered by tanks, constantly repairing armor and destroying any inf at close range.

Also sturms gain that 60% accuracy from their veterancy when they advance to VET 5, so their panzerschrecks will have laser guided rockets in them, also as JohnnyB said that giving them AT role would be too much, since you would have Super repair engineers that could also prevent enemy armor from flaking your heavy tanks, resulting in Sturmpioneers & Vehicle only armies in the late game

Units with AT weapons eating vet. So after 2-3 shots, stumrs will be insta vet 5.

vet 5 sturms are able to solo shocktroops.

Not imagine vet 5 schreck sturmpios covered by tanks, constantly repairing armor and destroying any inf at close range.

not an expert in COH2, so just asking.....but, why does OKW need a so powerfull enginer like sturmpios now that there is no resource penalties?????? why is not desired to have an OKW engi in the same level than others engies?????


I mean, your point is rigth, spios at level 5 are really great units....but why should we keep spios as powerfull as they are nowadays now that OKW receives the same amount of resources than others factions????

you can, as usf, get vet3 RE in no time putting them in a light vehicle or giving them zoooks, but vet3 RE are not a balance problem, sooo why don´t put spios at same level than others engies?????



just asking.

not an expert in COH2, so just asking.....but, why does OKW need a so powerfull enginer like sturmpios now that there is no resource penalties?????? why is not desired to have an OKW engi in the same level than others engies?????


I mean, your point is rigth, spios at level 5 are really great units....but why should we keep spios as powerfull as they are nowadays now that OKW receives the same amount of resources than others factions????


just asking.

The mere role of the Sturmpioneer is not only to be a repair unit, it's also okw dps unit in early-mid game. Every other factions has team weapons or upgrades that help their units and their army to do damage to the enemy in those games stages. OKW has nothing like this, only sturmpios which are effectively a close combat unit squad. They are disadvantaged against Allies mainline infantry in mid-long range and their dps drops by 25 % every time a model is lost...use that for your advantage.

OKW has their dps concentrated on specialist units.

Also for immersion: Sturmpioneers were combat troops, while Engineers, Pioneers & Rear Echolons were not meant to engange in actual combat at the front line. Their role was to repair bridges, maintain logistics etc.

Main problem why OKW spams schrecks - shitty rakketen and fact that schrecks are much more cost effective + fact that there are no other upgrades besides LMG or STG for Obersts, or G43 for fusiliers.

OKW is in really good spot now, besides schreck blobs, i'il even say they are more or less balanced.

BUT here is main problem of OKW:

1) No MG what so ever, only in 2 commanders.
2) Schreck blobs.
3) Shitty raketen.

Suggestions:
1) (I keep repeating myself) give volks 2xPanzerbuche + Faust unlock for 90 muni instead of schreck.

Let them start like cons\AIS against light armor\armor, and later thought vet make their Panzerbuche slightly more effective against inf then guards PTRS.

2) Give OKW non-doc MG34 and replace commander's MG34 to MG42

OR

Just swap kubel and MG34. Make kubel decent AI unit with decent armor for 15-20 fuel.

3) buff god damn raketten. Its garbage, remove clock\retreating\ability to enter buildings, what ever. Just rework this thing, its useless.

Cos a basic, cheap infantry unit that gets schrecks and incendiary grenades isn't OP at all. Oh no!

I suppose we should be grateful that relic didn't give em lightsabres.

Main problem why OKW spams schrecks - shitty rakketen and fact that schrecks are much more cost effective + fact that there are no other upgrades besides LMG or STG for Obersts, or G43 for fusiliers.

OKW is in really good spot now, besides schreck blobs, i'il even say they are more or less balanced.

BUT here is main problem of OKW:

1) No MG what so ever, only in 2 commanders.
2) Schreck blobs.
3) Shitty raketen.

Suggestions:
1) (I keep repeating myself) give volks 2xPanzerbuche + Faust unlock for 90 muni instead of schreck.

Let them start like cons\AIS against light armor\armor, and later thought vet make their Panzerbuche slightly more effective against inf then guards PTRS.

2) Give OKW non-doc MG34 and replace commander's MG34 to MG42

OR

Just swap kubel and MG34. Make kubel decent AI unit with decent armor for 15-20 fuel.

3) buff god damn raketten. Its garbage, remove clock\retreating\ability to enter buildings, what ever. Just rework this thing, its useless.

1. Obsolete Weapons on a late war German Army are extremely immersion breaking. Much better approach is to create a new tankhunter squad which can be upgraded with schrecks. Volks get an AI upgrade instead.

2. I agree.

3. The Raketenwerfer is far away from being "garbage" it's perfect for setting up traps since it can cloak. If you think it's bad that simply means you haven't learnt to use it properly yet.

Also for immersion: Sturmpioneers were combat troops, while Engineers, Pioneers & Rear Echolons were not meant to engange in actual combat at the front line. Their role was to repair bridges, maintain logistics etc.

Interestingly enough, pioneer squads were one of the most trained and well equipped battalions of the war.

Pioneer squads were typically equipped with close combat weaponry, flamethrowers, grenades, hollow-charge explosives, and mines for destroying enemy positions. They also had dedicated flamethrower teams, MG teams, and AT weapon teams unlike most other armies that had to call on this support from separate units.

Sure thing, just make sure to make panther, KT and JT no more armored and with the same HP as pershing

Idea is to have no AT spam for OKW, because cost effectiveness of that is utterly broken.

Do you see ost blobs with 4 shrecked PGs running around? No? Then that is the goal.

Why do you need 8 shrecks on the field anyway unless you blob hard like a scrub?

2 PG is 4 shreks... 4 shrek PG is 8 shreks, do you ever see anyone get 8 VGs? i don't think so.

also i see USF running around with 10 zooks quite often. both faction have shitty AT guns that is why it give main line infantry shreks and zooks, bring the AT up to line with other faction AT gun then they can move the shreks. also OKW don't have any nondoc cripping while USF have.

2 PG is 4 shreks... 4 shrek PG is 8 shreks, do you ever see anyone get 8 VGs? i don't think so.

And guess what? Still 2 PGs are hefty investment, because faction have plenty of other expenses as well as the PGs are an additional expense to the mainline inf. See, there is a resource management and decision making here.

I see however 5-7 volks as standard.
They all end up with shrecks eventually and I'm not talking about 4v4 here.

also i see USF running around with 10 zooks quite often. both faction have shitty AT guns that is why it give main line infantry shreks and zooks, bring the AT up to line with other faction AT gun then they can move the shreks. also OKW don't have any nondoc cripping while USF have.

Yes, in 4v4s.

And neither USF nor OKW at guns are shit, sure, USF requires muni to pen heavier stuff, but its vet1 is completely amazing.

OKW one isn't bad either from vet1 onwards as you'll always have a jump on tanks and emplacements because of 100% speed camo movement regardless of cover.

You see shrecks exclusively because they are on easy to maintain, in a faction that doesn't have any other munition expenses.

USF at least need to make sacrifices to spam them or you'll have no AI weapons, no upgrades on armor, no nades or offmaps.

OKW? Just yolo spam shrecks, because you can.
The only situation where you'll hesitate for a moment before getting another shreck is if you're using pfussies and not all are upgraded yet.

SP cannot have schrecks.
They have too many different abilities.
Wiring, detecting mines, plantng mines etc.
Giving them schrecks is out of qustion.

The only units which can get schrecks are obers.
They would have 2 different upgrades for 110 ammo.
1 - double schrecks.
2 - LMG 34.

US infantry at least have to go back to base to pick up their Bazookas. Volks don't even have to do that. The shrecks just appear in their hands.

America's school system at work here gentleman . how is it fucking possible that vg's get less damage when they only receive 20 % received accuracy from their vet 1 and 3. compare this to the rifles 45% script's 40% and is's 23%. And let us not discuss the weapon upgrades they receive.

Reminder that Cons start with 8.7% RA.
RA is not additive.
Volks are the only squad from the main line infantry that receives combat buffs at vet1.
Vet2: Offensive buff > defensive buff.

Anyway, the other guy was just overreacting.

US infantry at least have to go back to base to pick up their Bazookas. Volks don't even have to do that. The shrecks just appear in their hands.

Once again, weapon racks are a perfect Example for a good gameplay mechanic. It has clear advantages ( beeing able to equip every squad with it) and clear disadvantage ( go back to base to pick it up)

You can apply that Logic vice versa, shreks cant be equipped on every squad, but you dont need to Run to base.
Most abilitys/mechanics should follow this imho. Always clear dis/advantage

Once again, weapon racks are a perfect Example for a good gameplay mechanic. It has clear advantages ( beeing able to equip every squad with it) and clear disadvantage ( go back to base to pick it up)

You can apply that Logic vice versa, shreks cant be equipped on every squad, but you dont need to Run to base.
Most abilitys/mechanics should follow this imho. Always clear dis/advantage

Yep, you are rigth, only problem there is that in the case of OKW, there is no disvantage.....because in the end, with infantery squad would you select to put a shreck on them if you could choose???? volks, cheap reinforce, five men (hard to wipe) and available from T0.


I can´t think on other OKW infantery that I would choose to give them the shreck if I could choose. In the other hand, RE are garbage out of the box coz you can put bars and zooks on them, so a fresh RE squad need to not have any figthing capabilities, coz other way, if you put Bars or Zooks on them, they could be OP, so there you have one of the disvantages of using RACKS, being the other one that you have to spend fuel to unlock racks and you have to retreat to base to get the weapon in the squad....

In case of OKW, that is not a problem, spios keeps having one of the highets DPS at close range, tons of utilities and in addition, shrecks can be given to cheap volks in the middle of the map just for a bunch of munitions. Best kind of OKW infantery to hold the shreck, no side tech, no needed nerf to spios just in case they could go to rack and get some goodies....


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USF disvantages of using RACKS:

* Rear echelon figthing capabilities are garbage coz racks.
* side tech to unlock racks.
* go back to base and get your weapon once research has finished, of course, pay anmo for the weapon.


OKW disvantages of getting SHRECKS:

* Spios can´t get shrecks (not a problem after reading this thread, as spios are really bussy repairing, laying mines, and figthing).

* pay anmo to get the srecks.

I am a good boy, I play Ost and I play Brits.


I decided to play Brits because I cant get games as OST because of horrendous matchmaking numbers. After 2 days of games I'm giving up until matchmaking lets me play OST again.

OKW is completely out of control, its like USF sold its soul to the devil and came back as a daemic evil being whos only goal is inflict pain.

Some things that need to happen
-Flame grenades need to be locked behind research

-KT needs a CP requirement

-leigs need their laser guided rounds removed.

-Panzershreck needs a research requirement.

-deployed Trucks need reaserch to give benefits (fuck Panzer headquarters)

Early game
Starting with Strumpios and a kubel that can cap is way too strong
Either Strumpios need to get nerfed, Kubel need to get reverted, or OKW should start with a kubel or Volk squad.

At least USF has to wait to build a infantry squad before the choking begins, with OKW

"the battle is about to commence! at your fuel and cutoff! at 00.00.30!

OKW starting with Strumpios was fine before because Volks were trash, they are now not trash, and now the early game pressure JUST DOSENT STOP. Add Kubels that can cap now, and you don't even get too miss out on resources! enjoy being 100 percent up your opponent ass while your kubel caps the map for you.

My fix: OKW now starts with a Kubel, Kubel nerfed to shit so it cant fight even combat engineer squads, only cap, this mirrors USF with their rear echelons.

Midgame
Yeah Flame grenades and panzershrecks need research. Leigs need to be in range for counter barageing. Its not balanced that Motar pit gets outranged by Leig. Motar war should be a Motar war not a one sided inevitability. Brits have no counter to Leig and double leig is a bitch

KT needs a (12) CP requirement

That's it for now

Fully aggreed,

For example, let me be clear: USF starts with 1 Echelons - OPKW with 1 Sturmpio - Who can use the first House (Advantage) ? Sturmpio! It is more effective and the following Rifleman Squad is not much more effective than the following Volksgrenadier.
So it isnt true that that the USF Player has a early-Game Advantage.

And Volksgrenadier spam does work.

Once again, weapon racks are a perfect Example for a good gameplay mechanic. It has clear advantages ( beeing able to equip every squad with it)

Riflemans and rear echelones?