[OSTHEER][ALL][Panzer Werfer]

I mean, war is hell. What can you expect?


Katyusha was only good because you could rush a katyusha and wipe Ostheer support teams clinging to life waiting for a Tiger with a fuel, muni, and VP point. Now that it comes later, just like Pwerfer, it makes Katyusha less effective because weapon teams/infantry have more time to get xp to vet up.

But this is a game, where I get punished for playing combined arms and really being aggressive and sneaky, at same time. Then my combined arms get thrown out of the window by one unit mid/late game, that is really hard to counter. That is really bullshit, especially when dodging and spacing out my units as I should. This should counter the werfer effectively but doesn't, hence the longer flight time. Still it seems a lot of players just wants the game to be a indirect fire game. Guess the USF will be in for a treat when the calliope shows up.

Whether war is hell is not a factor in this equation, this is a balance discussion. If the game has these units where even reacting correctly won't save you from the wipes, then it'll never go to e-sports.

I disagree about it over performing by much. It fits its intended role very well. If your squads are being wiped it means that it a close in distance and the other took a risk to bring it that forward. Perhaps the rockets could be in air a tad longer but for now its great to counter blobs.

+1 for El Presidente!

+1 for El Presidente!

I detect a conflict of interest!

Werfer doing exactly what it supposed to do. Kat is barely less deadly, but it has bigger range and comes faster.

Don't blob, and don't ignore it firing sound.

Agreed. The pwerfer, as a close range wipe/pin machine, is doing its role perfectly fine.
I only rush T4 for it if I know there are blobs walking around that are asking to be wiped.

However, I think the Katy is underperforming in its role when compared to pwerfer.
As a long range AOE rocket artillery that should deter blobbing by axis, it doesn't give any suppression/pinning and does less damage in a bigger spread.

Methinks upping the damage a little per rocket and adding suppression/pinned to units hit would bring Katy into line - thereby balancing it. I wouldn't even mind paying a bit more fuel for it if it meant more damage/utility.

I don't get one thing:
why does unit that unloads all of its payload at once HAVE suppression, while other unit that barrages in several salvos DOES NOT? Is this because of teching costs?

katy is underperforming...

no, katy is fine because whilst it can be effective, it is not a wipe machine like pwerfer is now.

ostheer t4 is the hardest tech to get, but that does not mean it should be that good.

Panzerwerfer is currently the best arty piece in the game and it's blatantly overperforming by wiping team weapons even on max range without the possiblity to react. Every game I use it, I get 30+ kills - usually between 40-60 on every single piece.

On the other hand, T4 for Ostheer is way too costly. Right now, Ostheer performs weak in teammatches against a mixed team with brits. Brit blobs with double LMG, supported by double Pak and a mortar emplacement/sniper break Ostheer. In order to deal with British team weapon spam, Ostheer needs a proper artillery unit which comes too late and at a too high price.

But this is a game, where I get punished for playing combined arms and really being aggressive and sneaky, at same time. Then my combined arms get thrown out of the window by one unit mid/late game, that is really hard to counter. That is really bullshit, especially when dodging and spacing out my units as I should. This should counter the werfer effectively but doesn't, hence the longer flight time. Still it seems a lot of players just wants the game to be a indirect fire game. Guess the USF will be in for a treat when the calliope shows up.

Whether war is hell is not a factor in this equation, this is a balance discussion. If the game has these units where even reacting correctly won't save you from the wipes, then it'll never go to e-sports.

Lol, You got trolled. Look at your signature.
sorry. Have a good day.

Agreed. The pwerfer, as a close range wipe/pin machine, is doing its role perfectly fine.
I only rush T4 for it if I know there are blobs walking around that are asking to be wiped.

However, I think the Katy is underperforming in its role when compared to pwerfer.
As a long range AOE rocket artillery that should deter blobbing by axis, it doesn't give any suppression/pinning and does less damage in a bigger spread.

Methinks upping the damage a little per rocket and adding suppression/pinned to units hit would bring Katy into line - thereby balancing it. I wouldn't even mind paying a bit more fuel for it if it meant more damage/utility.

I would agree that Katy needs a buff. I don't know why its rockets fire in fours... it seems stupid.

katy is underperforming...

no, katy is fine because whilst it can be effective, it is not a wipe machine like pwerfer is now.

ostheer t4 is the hardest tech to get, but that does not mean it should be that good.

Panzerwerfer is currently the best arty piece in the game and it's blatantly overperforming by wiping team weapons even on max range without the possiblity to react. Every game I use it, I get 30+ kills - usually between 40-60 on every single piece.

On the other hand, T4 for Ostheer is way too costly. Right now, Ostheer performs weak in teammatches against a mixed team with brits. Brit blobs with double LMG, supported by double Pak and a mortar emplacement/sniper break Ostheer. In order to deal with British team weapon spam, Ostheer needs a proper artillery unit which comes too late and at a too high price.

Ostheer T4 is too expensive. Perhaps Relic thought keeping it that high was to prevent players from rushing out the panzerwerfer? Skipping T3 to get a... Brummbar is, well, stupid. Skipping to get a panther is more useful but still not as useful seeing as it has little impact against infantry and, if you're rushing T4 for a Panther cuz you need AT, the game would most likely be over by that time...

Panzerwerfer could get a scatter increase across the board, I think.

The way coh2 is designed as a relatively fast-paced game means that rocket artillery is more effective than traditional artillery because you don't need a gun batter to bombard defensive fortifications. Rocket artillery is better against a defensive line because it covers a wide area and it kills in one salvo, in a few seconds. That's what makes rocket artillery more powerful than the Priest, for example.

For that reason, I don't know why rocket artillery is so much cheaper than conventional artillery in the game. But, regardless of that point, a tiny, teeny weeny nerf to the panzerwerfer is in order while a buff to katyusha would be good.

As long as O steer squad sizes stay at 4, Katushas should not be buffed.

Come on people lets not make them more randomly wipe able.

So let me get this straight:

- Axis shouldn't be allowed to have effective range arty because reasons, even if it comes so late and requires such teching investment;
- No matter how bad Ostheer currently is, you ask for more nerfs. Wow.
- Though currently allied blob > axis blob in terms of resistance and effectiveness you think it's unbalanced for ostheer to have a good antiblob tool that actualy kills, even if it comes so late and cost such an investment as I said before.

You know, I feel people who think panzerwerfer is such an OP unit in fact doesn't stand to lose against an opponent that succesfully resisted to their blobbing while not being cornered until late game when he finally has something to strike back.

Well boys, don't take it so easy. When the new OKW will go live, I garantee to you that almost nobody will play ostheer anymore. The difference between them will be so high in terms of sturdiness and effectiveness.

Then you will cry about how OP is the OKW again, then Lelic will make the game shitty again. And so on. Never ending storry. Ever.

make t4 10 fuel cheaper and make werfer 95 fuel Kappa

Don't blob, and don't ignore it firing sound.

This is nonsense. If i use con-blob I may to react: mass retreat or even rush forward with Hoorah.
PanzerWerfer and Stuka zu Fuß destroy the whole idea of the combined forces. How should I respond when german missile launchers beat on my MG, ATG and mortars? Just stand there and die. If I spray my force they will stop support each other and will turn into a bunch weak units. What are the all stock Soviet units individually.
So if you do not want this, you have two options: spam infantry that can quickly leave firing zone or spam medium tanks which are resistant to missile launchers.
The more you use the types of troops, the less controllable your army. So this game is all about spam and blobs.

Returning to PanzerWerfer I would like to see equal barrage time for all the missile launchers.

This is nonsense. If i use con-blob I may to react: mass retreat or even rush forward with Hoorah.

And you will be killed either way if you dont play against idiots who cant predict your reaction.

PanzerWerfer and Stuka zu Fuß destroy the whole idea of the combined forces.

They destroy idea of turtling without tanks, thats all.

How should I respond when german missile launchers beat on my MG, ATG and mortars?

Build tanks. Dont blob.

You write bullshit, please stop

You write bullshit, please stop

Strong arguments, dude.

the panzerwerfer seems to always go between wipe machine or a gentle breeze. I think it would make it easier to balance if the panzerwerfer fire its rocket a bit slower, instead of instantaneous.

This would allow infantry to retreat but support weapons would still get wiped.

Strong arguments, dude.

Well, he is quite right for your last comment. Speaking of blob or turtuling about someone who play with ATG/Mortar/HMG to support its mainline troops is bullshit.

the Panzerwerfer is too good, this is not a question of price or accessibility but balance. Now what is funny is reading people saying the unit is fine where the one shooting to nerf the Brit Operation bombing ability a month ago.

the panzerwerfer seems to always go between wipe machine or a gentle breeze. I think it would make it easier to balance if the panzerwerfer fire its rocket a bit slower, instead of instantaneous.

This would allow infantry to retreat but support weapons would still get wiped.

Well related to panzerwerfer, it's quite simple: it was useless, now it's good. Nothing more to add. The difference between being OP and good is quite obvious but some people are simply denying it from obvious reasons. I am sure they want it to return to the "gentle breeze" status because then it won't create problems anymore which will suit them fine.

Because any change now in a nerfing way = returning it to the "gentle breeze" status. There is a long practice with this kind of threads:

- Panther to good - please nurf
- Brummbar to good - please nurf.....

After one-two months: "why no one is building T4 anymore while playing ostheer?"

Then all starts again from beginning. Just lol.

To all people saying that ostheer is in a bad state right now: check out coh2charts, I believe the 1v1 winrates are very close to being balanced (for all factions).

There probably is no problem with pwerfer, it's the katyusha that is underperforming. I'd suggest adding suppression to it so that moving out of the (very slow) barrage is not so easy. Creeping barrage (vet) is also a waste of muni right now.

I still don't understand how stationary people play if they can be hit with pzwerfer.

The hit itself is that different from 120m mortar or Pakhowi. And it only the targets stupidity if (s)he does not move when they start to shoot.