Balance Preview Patchnotes

what are you smoking man. they buffed volks because they get run over in the early game. if u both buff and nerf them equally then nothing changes.

Ofc 250 manpower infantry should beat 280 mp riflemans face to face. Not to mention strumpioneers became cheaper.

U pay the price of a tiger to get a Churchill out man! And why should one pays such a price for such a tank?! What usage it has to justify such a price?! Yes it has a high HP, but nothing else to justify its price and convincing to purchase it

The tiger costs 640/230 and it's a doctrinal unit which has been limited to only 1, the Churchill costs 540/180 and it's a stock unit without number limit.I always say that the high HP is more reliable than the high armor.The Panther has 320 front armor, it dies fast to AT walls because it's 600 HP less than the Churchill. The Churchill can eat 5 shots of ele/JT/PAK43. That's why it cost 180 fuel.

Ofc 250 manpower infantry should beat 280 mp riflemans face to face. Not to mention strumpioneers became cheaper.

Volks should probably be 260, but that's probably it as they only have their rifles for AI while all other line infantry (except poor conscripts) get weapon upgrades and generally get much better survivability bonuses as the game goes on.

DPS comparison with their damage boost

Ranges: 0/10/15/20/25/30/35

Volks: 4.55/3.46/3.037/2.7/2.42/2.07/1.806
Riflemen: 6.76\4.33\3.40\2.80\2.34\1.97\1.67

Of course there various other factors meaning DPS isn't everything like the damage differences between the rifles, ROF, accuracy, etc.

but they dont beat them face to face unless the rifles are in disadvantageous position. also rifles have pretty good vet and can also upgrade to bars or LMGs

The tiger costs 640/230 and it's a doctrinal unit which has been limited to only 1, the Churchill costs 540/180 and it's a stock unit without number limit.I always say that the high HP is more reliable than the high armor.The Panther has 320 front armor, it dies fast to AT walls because it's 600 HP less than the Churchill. The Churchill can eat 5 shots of ele/JT/PAK43. That's why it cost 180 fuel.

u forgot the cost u also pay for anvil which is not very useful except for the airburst (in case u can use that) so u can add another 50 fuel to 180=230 fuel to get a Churchil out and u are still following the same reasoning which still doesn't make any sense to pay that much fuel to get a tank ONLY for its high HP

but they dont beat them face to face unless the rifles are in disadvantageous position. also rifles have pretty good vet and can also upgrade to bars or LMGs

He might be referencing to the fact that Rear Echelons got a 25% damage increase and a 25% cost increase while Volksgrenadiers cost increase doesnt justify their 20% damage increase

Teching costs are teching costs, unit costs are unit costs. One is for timing, one is for performance.

People that want to increase prices for things like the MG34 because OKW now got normal ressource income have to consider that nades or tanks (like the Panther) didn't cost less because of the fuel penalty. That also means: higher income does not justify higher prices (only higher teching costs).

#logic

I just don't want people to rush panthers, P4 and get ez game ez life, it's the matter on how it can be rushed, there is something to do if we don't want this to occur everytime

u forgot the cost u also pay for anvil which is not very useful except for the airburst (in case u can use that) so u can add another 50 fuel to 180=230 fuel to get a Churchil out and u are still following the same reasoning which still doesn't make any sense to pay that much fuel to get a tank ONLY for its high HP

If you add the tech cost to unit cost, Can I say the Ost panther cost 490+360/175+120=850/295 ?? Also, the Comet cost 500+200/185+50=700/235 ?? By this logic it seems almost no balance between the comet and tiger?

Obviously it's wrong logic. Tech cost is for timing. Unit cost is for performance. The second Churchill still cost 180 fuel but not 180+50.

to be honest i find the panther to be pretty mediocre and rather focus on puma's jp's and p4's.

the panther has decent survivability but no dps what so ever and its high penetration is wasted on medium tanks. so p4's will generally do better.

if you prefer counter t34/85 and ez8 with p4, gl with that

I'm not a complete expert on the game of course and I am definitely open to being proven wrong, but I just didn't see how alot of these points made any sense. If I fucked up completely somewhere and like misread then I apologize, I'm not trying to be a prick, these just felt like unfair points.

If a unit has no pure equivalence, it doesn't mean it is not the best tool to do what it is supposed to do.
OKW has actually no drawback in term of AI, it has every tool available on stock: Assault (sturm) + Support (volks) + Elite (Obers). And can decide to field whatever specialized infantry they want from a doctrines.

In addition to this AI soft power, you have your atgun from T0 which mean you never have to decide if you want more AI or if you want to go for AT when you go T1 or T2.
Because in fact you have more AI whenever you decide to go T1 or T2, flack-HT and Luch can be different in their usage, they remain strong AI vehicles and you still can develop AT capabilities with shreck or Puma + access to Arty support ISG or Stuka in T1 and T2.
On this last point your comparison with the mortar and Kat is irrelevant, mortar isn't a T1 unit and Kat a T2 unit in the soviet teching.

So of course as OKW you make decisions around going T1 or T2 but those are based on your personal preferences on unit abilities. Do I prefer a Flack-HT or a Luch? Do I prefer Puma or shreck? Do I prefer ISG or Stuka?. Nothing like Do I go T1 and only have AI or do I go T2 and only have AT like USF does.
Nothing like Do I go T1 and only have M3/Sniper/penals or do I go T2 and have Maxim/mortar/Zis to support my cons
Nothing like Hammer or Anvil for the Brit

Nothing like: Do I delay my teching and build grenade/heal/BARszooks/molotov/5thman squad/ATnade etc..? No you have teching and grenade/shreck/heal or teching + repair station.

And the cherry on the top of the cake is OKW can still field its truck on the map and lock 1/3 of it, now around 10 minutes... (thank to the fuel start removal).

I don't want OKW being nerfed, I want OKW having drawbacks in their gameplay based on the player decision making. Drawbacks you must exploit to beat them as Brit/USF/Sov.

If you add the tech cost to unit cost, Can I say the Ost panther cost 490+360/175+120=850/295 ?? Also, the Comet cost 500+200/185+50=700/235 ?? By this logic it seems almost no balance between the comet and tiger?

Obviously it's wrong logic. Tech cost is for timing. Unit cost is for performance. The second Churchill still cost 180 fuel but not 180+50.

I agree with you that tech cost is different but my point refers to the recent 70 muni cost to make ur REs useless, and not getting anything worth/useful out of this tech whereas usually with teching u get access to certain worthy units like the panther u mentioned (and/or pw) but anyways still my point is paying that much never justifies Churchil performance only for HP, u're telling me normal Churchil and Croc should cost the same? that tells the end of the story

when the UKF starts to building a bofors for example and stopped before finishing, you can garrison the bofors.
I have to test it again...maybe you can garrison the bofors during the build time. There is something wrong...bug maybe?


Esxile they removed the fuel start from 40 to 0 fuel with the update

I agree with you that tech cost is different but my point refers to the recent 70 muni cost to make ur REs useless

For "usless" REs:

as for heavy engineer, do you realized that 70mu turn a 210mp unit into a elite infantry like obers while still have super duper cheap reinforcement price? with 2 armor which more than shock and a LMG, 3 LMG HRE unit is strong as obers it drop german infantry like flies as long as you don't move it around into cover let them hug each other in cover to eat nades like idiots, just fire where they stand they can force off any infantry in the game including obers. not mention its lighting repair speed. just think the price 10MU for 2 armor and slower moving in combat super repair speed, and that 60 mu is a LMG price. i don't think it is over priced.

u're telling me normal Churchil and Croc should cost the same?

The Croc has poor AT capability, also, it has been nerfed by reduction of range, and the flame DOT has been nerfed previously so I feel it could use a buff for its cost. Now 240 fuel is too expensive.

This patch mod looks like alpha, the same mistakes from Relic, thay dont learn anything from 3 alpha .

Next patch OKW will have a weaker early than ostheer. OKW cannot make a initial aggressive push in the opening because of no free sWs trucks and no suppression unit. Being unable to throw nades nor buy shrecks further weakens their early game strength for example when facing garrisons and/or MGs. Furthermore OKW is not good at playing defensively since there are no MGs in the first few minutes and raketen is better at assulting than at defending.

However I believe that makes up for their late game since OKW no longer holds resource penality and their armor have been long proven deversating if only considering their on-paper prices.

The bigger problem is, with OKW being made as another ostheer with even weaker early game and more powerful late game, and other changes such as veterancy and resource changes, lelic is ruining the diversity of strategies. RIP old OKW strategies, since new OKW has to be played like Ostheer. No more resource transfer, making the resource income of alomst every player rather predictable, thus making player's strategies predictable too. It seems that the strategy is being limited in to infantry combat supported with team weapons, light armor later, and finally tanks and tank destroyers. Players almost have no alternative choices at each stage of the game. This kind of situation…… well at least is easy to balance I have to say, so might be a good step perhaps.

For "usless" REs:




The Croc has poor AT capability, also, it has been nerfed by reduction of range, and the flame DOT has been nerfed previously so I feel it could use a buff for its cost. Now 240 fuel is too expensive.

I'm sure you never play brits or even if u do ... meh
so better not to keep the conversation, U think Churchil have good AT and Croc have bad AT?!! lmao!! no reason to keep a conversation with u man with such a statement of urs

The Churchill is the only heavy tank which doesn't have a number limit now. And 180 fuel is for its huge healthpool which is the most of the whole game. Thanks to Relic!!

The Royal slow moving penalty removed? Ok then remove its 2.0 armor too.

KV-1.

And KT got some considerable buffs now, being able to call it in alone is huge, it only made sense to limit it.

Relic, I have a question

Why Crocodile and normal Churchill should cost the same? (same fuel and just 160 mp difference) both 180 fuel

PS. for normal Churchill u actually need to pay extra for anvil as well

it is nice to play a german faction with infantry capable of facing the allies without being overly reliant on mg.

However, the wildly different scaling between the rifleman and volks is going to cause a headache. the rifleman with vet3 leave volks in the dust.

Relic, I have a question

Why Crocodile and normal Churchill should cost the same? (same fuel and just 160 mp difference) both 180 fuel

PS. for normal Churchill u actually need to pay extra for anvil as well

seems logical to me, command panzer 4 costs 125 fuel and the regular panzer 4 costs 125 fuel. is it the same with commmand panther?

dont know what your problem is