Osttruppen > Grenadiers

I've been using the Osttruppen commander alot lately and winning more games. I think because I'm getting faster map control and get a P4 tank out faster. This doctrine helps me alot against the overbearing riflemen. I go straight for the P4 and just spam Osttruppen MGs. For me, this makes Grenadiers useless.I can get more osttruppen out to put a hold on the USF riflemen spam with MGs. This makes grenadier null and void to me.

Anyone else had this type of success?

Thanks,

Not all units are equally useful in all situations.
Osttruppen+supporting units are more effective vs western armies, grens with less support vs soviets.

no. look at the other thread. grens are fine l2p smoke&flank

maybe we can switch osttruppen with grens and make a gren call in for 200MP and set the osttruppen to 240MP

Not all units are equally useful in all situations.
Osttruppen+supporting units are more effective vs western armies, grens with less support vs soviets.

I suggest renaming them to Westtruppen.

Not all units are equally useful in all situations.
Osttruppen+supporting units are more effective vs western armies, grens with less support vs soviets.

bc cons can suppress Ostruppen right?

I've been using the Osttruppen commander alot lately and winning more games. I think because I'm getting faster map control and get a P4 tank out faster. This doctrine helps me alot against the overbearing riflemen. I go straight for the P4 and just spam Osttruppen MGs. For me, this makes Grenadiers useless.I can get more osttruppen out to put a hold on the USF riflemen spam with MGs. This makes grenadier null and void to me.

Anyone else had this type of success?

Thanks,

It works yes, but largely counterable. The USF solution isn't a Rifle outspam but fast T1 .50 + M15/M20 + BARs.

.50 works incredibly well vs ostruppen (more models per squad, suppressed faster) and by the same logic M15. Same if you don't build your T1, you'll not have the faust to counter an aggressive M20.

BARs upgrade will make your Ostruppen completely outclassed around 6-7 minutes (if the USF player goes lieutenant first). Also let him equip Zooks if required to soft counter you Pz4.

Now it all depends on fuel control. As USF I can also go 2x.50 and save my fuel for a fast T1/T2 capt/Stuart/Atgun. And good luck to get back a fuel point if defended by a .50, you don't have the riflenade forcing you to invest in a mortar and so build T1.

So in conclusion:
Works well vs USF player going fast T2 (but it is his fault for not adapting his BO same if he see your ostruppen) but you'll be stopped if the player invest in an early heavy AI units and take from you the fuel control. You'll need mortar and other AI stuff to contain him so less ostruppen on the field.

It works now because the strat is quite new and people are slow to adapt. Not sure if it will be the case in a month or so.

It works yes, but largely counterable. The USF solution isn't a Rifle outspam but fast T1 .50 + M15/M20 + BARs.

.50 works incredibly well vs ostruppen (more models per squad, suppressed faster) and by the same logic M15. Same if you don't build your T1, you'll not have the faust to counter an aggressive M20.

BARs upgrade will make your Ostruppen completely outclassed around 6-7 minutes (if the USF player goes lieutenant first). Also let him equip Zooks if required to soft counter you Pz4.

Now it all depends on fuel control. As USF I can also go 2x.50 and save my fuel for a fast T1/T2 capt/Stuart/Atgun. And good luck to get back a fuel point if defended by a .50, you don't have the riflenade forcing you to invest in a mortar and so build T1.

So in conclusion:
Works well vs USF player going fast T2 (but it is his fault for not adapting his BO same if he see your ostruppen) but you'll be stopped if the player invest in an early heavy AI units and take from you the fuel control. You'll need mortar and other AI stuff to contain him so less ostruppen on the field.

It works now because the strat is quite new and people are slow to adapt. Not sure if it will be the case in a month or so.

Osttruppen into pzgrenadiers with mg support will still be far better than grens with mg support.
Even 2 mg42s and 1 assgren into 222 and pzgren is better than stay t1 and grens.
Grens effectively inferior in all cases.

I´m only one that use gren spam with SCAS lmg´n´cheese.co ?

I´m only one that use gren spam with SCAS lmg´n´cheese.co ?

No,thats the one co. along with elite troops that makes grens somewhat useable.
But in 2 vs 2 and above grens have no scaling lategame,and are sure to be wiped so makes no sense to invest in such troops.

No,thats the one co. along with elite troops that makes grens somewhat useable.
But in 2 vs 2 and above grens have no scaling lategame,and are sure to be wiped so makes no sense to invest in such troops.

Wait, how ostruppen are solution if grens are scaling bad? I mean, ostruppen are great early game but dont scale at all, grens on the other hand have problems with rifles early game but are superb late game especially in numbers.

I used ostruppen widely not only recently but for a very long time. It was always a great doctrine but it was much better before the change to tech costs, it allowed to rush ostwind or p4 really quickly. Now it still needs bypass with grens in the mid game when ostruppen are not doing their job and tanks are still not on the field. That means grens are usefull and important even when you play ostruppen.

Wait, how ostruppen are solution if grens are scaling bad?

the same way soviet manage with their conscript.

the same way soviet manage with their conscript.

Yep, cheap infantry that can swarm other infantry and have AT snare for vehicles.

No,thats the one co. along with elite troops that makes grens somewhat useable.
But in 2 vs 2 and above grens have no scaling lategame,and are sure to be wiped so makes no sense to invest in such troops.

I´m only 1vs1 players so my build orders and game experience is only based on this game mode

Ostruppen are awesome, they work well, cheap, cheap to re inforce. Its the rest of the tech tree that I dont like.

Ostruppen scale pretty well late-game in regards of taking damage. They can out do conscripts in surviving due to low cost and high vet bonus in reducing received accuracy. The one problem with them is their reliance on cover for any level of accuracy. Without it, they are half of grens, with cover, they do a slight bonus higher than grens. The cover bonus can be powerful when in combination with picking up dropped LMG. It can become extremely accurate because of the cover bonus.

Personally, Ostruppen compliment weapon crews since they can make weapon crews equally cheap. In single player games, they make it a cheap solution early game for point capture and general purposes with lower dps in exchange for vitality. They do not have grenades of any sort, so they struggle against buildings and HMG crews.

Multiplayer wise, they can be a power house early game commander, since they can hold the line for teammates who struggle with their late armor strategies. Heavy emphasis in this style relies on cheap, high vet ostruppen in unison with equally cheap weapon crews (once recrewed).

Not all units are equally useful in all situations.
Osttruppen+supporting units are more effective vs western armies, grens with less support vs soviets.

You forgot to mention cons suppress ostruppen.

PROSTRUPPEN

Wait, how ostruppen are solution if grens are scaling bad? I mean, ostruppen are great early game but dont scale at all, grens on the other hand have problems with rifles early game but are superb late game especially in numbers.

I used ostruppen widely not only recently but for a very long time. It was always a great doctrine but it was much better before the change to tech costs, it allowed to rush ostwind or p4 really quickly. Now it still needs bypass with grens in the mid game when ostruppen are not doing their job and tanks are still not on the field. That means grens are usefull and important even when you play ostruppen.

Grenadiers are not superb lategame at all .Ostruppen DON'T wipe.And u can use them as meatshield in cover and manning support weapons all game with cheap reinforce.I'm not talking about osttruppen spam,i'm talking about 2 ost squads early with mg42s into panzergrenadiers.Panzergrenadiers scale better than grenadiers partially,much better in the attack,almost same dmg at long range as lmg42,more at mid and close range,better vet -keeping them behind osttruppen and mg42 defenisvely they are quite good.Especially if u use them with harder to hit bulletins stacked.Unlike grenadiers 30 mp reinforce being a MP hole and a munition sink that u can invest in tellers.Against vetted lmg blob with smoke even pzgrens will struggle bad ,but thats due to the fact that wehrmacht has no counter for that horde of terminators currently once they start dodging bullets.They still perform better than gren.
Its osttruppen+mg42 into panzergrenadiers ,1 assgren+mg42 into pzgrens,or mg42-pio into pzgrens(risky).Grenadiers are not necessary at all.

Grenadiers are not superb lategame at all .Ostruppen DON'T wipe.And u can use them as meatshield in cover and manning support weapons all game with cheap reinforce.I'm not talking about osttruppen spam,i'm talking about 2 ost squads early with mg42s into panzergrenadiers.Panzergrenadiers scale better than grenadiers partially,much better in the attack,almost same dmg at long range as lmg42,more at mid and close range,better vet -keeping them behind osttruppen and mg42 defenisvely they are quite good.Especially if u use them with harder to hit bulletins stacked.Unlike grenadiers 30 mp reinforce being a MP hole and a munition sink that u can invest in tellers.Against vetted lmg blob with smoke even pzgrens will struggle bad ,but thats due to the fact that wehrmacht has no counter for that horde of terminators currently once they start dodging bullets.They still perform better than gren.
Its osttruppen+mg42 into panzergrenadiers ,1 assgren+mg42 into pzgrens,or mg42-pio into pzgrens(risky).Grenadiers are not necessary at all.

So you build pzgrens because grens are a mp sink in your opinion? Well that's a risky theory as pzgrens are exactly the definition of mp sink in ostheer faction. They are good but situational, work only if in green cover before fight or enemy doesnt focus fire them. More than one squad is madness. On the other hand grens are much cheaper and have faust + rifle nade + same dps on long range with lmg. Whats more their damage doesnt drop as fast while they loose models. 2 model pgren squad is useless, 2 model gren squad can still deal a lot of damage.