Adjust JP4 cloak range

Either way, are you guys seriously complaining about a tank destroyer not being easily countered by tanks? Infantry AT is the name of the game vs Jagdpanzer.

Piats to the rescue!

This. In combination with attack ground you can reliably hit cloaked JP4s. You also can't escape with a cloaked jp4, as good players just send one tank after it to hunt it down.
Don't really recommend or understand why factions that are UP should be getting further nerfes. But then again fan boys won't rest until they reach 100 % win rate

Couple of things here. You tire me with your fan boy comments. You also cannot use attack ground, as was already pointed out, because the JT will fire at 60 range, you must close to 40, and then when you do he continues to back up since you have to stop to use attack ground. Overperforming units do not get a pass because the faction is weak. How do you hunt down an invisible tank in a faction with the most handheld AT, forward retreat points, and the cheapest and also cloakable AT guns again?

JT cloak is stupid as it is implemented. I like the mechanic, but the recloak rate is crazy fast. It is already extremely hard to hit (small target size), has amazing vet, can spot for itself, is relatively fast cloaked, and is available very early. The damage bonus at vet 5 is outright stupid, it already fires ridiculously quickly at that point and with the bonus damage it nullifies everything on wheels/treads. It should receive high accuracy and penetration out of cloak at vet 5.

Unit is in need of some changes to its vet, otherwise it makes good sense.

Couple of things here. You tire me with your fan boy comments. You also cannot use attack ground, as was already pointed out, because the JT will fire at 60 range, you must close to 40, and then when you do he continues to back up since you have to stop to use attack ground.

All theorycrafting aside, I ONLY give advices I actually used in the game. 60 Range only works with a spotter and the problem you describe only concerns medium tanks, which are NOT the counter for the JP4.
I use always double AT guns, and have destroyed countless cloaked JP4's in that way. If you don't manage to do that, its not my problem I'm perfectly capable doing this and so is every other player then.

Overperforming units do not get a pass because the faction is weak.

And by what do you define overperforming? To use this terms you need to do calculations which then prove your point. I don't use the word therefore. Its lethal to tanks and weak to its counters (At guns), while costing a respectable amount of resources and opportunity costs due teching. No over performance here.

How do you hunt down an invisible tank in a faction with the most handheld AT, forward retreat points, and the cheapest and also cloakable AT guns again?

You don't need always to destroy tanks in order to counter them. All you handheld at and raketenwerfer won't do anything against 2 at guns. Keeping units at bay or shut their play down means to counter.

JT cloak is stupid as it is implemented. I like the mechanic, but the recloak rate is crazy fast. It is already extremely hard to hit (small target size), has amazing vet, can spot for itself, is relatively fast cloaked, and is available very early. The damage bonus at vet 5 is outright stupid, it already fires ridiculously quickly at that point and with the bonus damage it nullifies everything on wheels/treads. It should receive high accuracy and penetration out of cloak at vet 5.

It's one of the units that hasn't been nerfed into the ground yet. Which still keeps the stats and bonuses relic once had in mind for OKW with their vet 5 system. In addition its an important crutch right now and it needs all the survivability it has right now, since spending 135 fuel in mid game also means high opportunity costs, since you can not tech for obers or get any anti infantry vehicles out soon. Hence its survivability needs to be higher than the tank destroyers of other factions, because OKW can't pump them out like other factions.

Attacking ground is pure theory craft in this case.

I thought it is as easy as attack ground vs smoked tank but it's not, unless JPIV does not have any support.

Few months ago I uploaded a replay with this damn ability.
JPIV was 1, maybe 2 shots from death. I sent 3 T34/76 around whole map to catch its ass.
In fact I did. I saw JPIV ass, moved into the range and poof, it dissapears (keep in mind controling 3 tanks at the same time), then suddenly, out of nowhere KT showed up and raketen or Volks squad (dont rememeber).

First thought? Run away from range of KT. In mean time, JPIV cloak was gone so T34 have started aiming at it and again, poof, switchich target on KT and in the middle of turret move JPIV again, so turrert have swietech again on it and then puff. 3 or 4 times like that.

Now try to attack ground when moving 3 tanks around KT and raketen, while trying to shoot at invisible target. This is not classic attack ground which is not micro intensive. It was puddingly intensive trying to stay out from KT main gun, away from raketen (I guess it was raketen) arc of fire, moving tanks around and hitting ground attack - sure you can ground attack but try to stop, ground attack and you gonna lose all tanks.

Point is, it is absurd that JPIV is dissapearing in front of enemy's tank in the middle of nowhere.

Couple of things here. You tire me with your fan boy comments. You also cannot use attack ground, as was already pointed out, because the JT will fire at 60 range, you must close to 40, and then when you do he continues to back up since you have to stop to use attack ground. Overperforming units do not get a pass because the faction is weak. How do you hunt down an invisible tank in a faction with the most handheld AT, forward retreat points, and the cheapest and also cloakable AT guns again?

JT cloak is stupid as it is implemented. I like the mechanic, but the recloak rate is crazy fast. It is already extremely hard to hit (small target size), has amazing vet, can spot for itself, is relatively fast cloaked, and is available very early. The damage bonus at vet 5 is outright stupid, it already fires ridiculously quickly at that point and with the bonus damage it nullifies everything on wheels/treads. It should receive high accuracy and penetration out of cloak at vet 5.

Unit is in need of some changes to its vet, otherwise it makes good sense.

OKW requires some overperforming units to survive as faction as long as it has resource penalties by design.Remove res penalties and vet 5,u can then nerf cloak.

defending this ridiculous ability is ridiculous.

attack use attack ground is just lol.

for it to work, you gotta have a flat landscape and luck, because attack ground isn't accurate at all.

if you have a flanking tank, you have to stop to shoot which is counter-intuitive when flanking.

and you cannot have other enemy vehicles around because there is no hold fire for god knows why and once your turret rotate away from the target, your attack ground command must account for even more guess work as to where to JP4 would've gone to etc etc.

The ability maybe ridiculous,but unless faction recieves big buffs its last remaining crutch can't be taken away.Might as well delete the faction altogether.
And sherman firefly tulip is equally ridiculous.

OKW requires some overperforming units to survive as faction as long as it has resource penalties by design.Remove res penalties and vet 5,u can then nerf cloak.

That's not how balance work. You fix things that are broken and you buff/nerf things that are imba.

It's meant to be used for ambush, not for an improvised smoke/cloak device. There's almost 0 cooldown to activate/deactivate and it re enters cloak after 5s (same time it takes for it to fire till vet 3).

Fix:
-Add a 5s cooldown upon activation
-Move in combat status from 5s to 10s
-Increase penetration by 25%
-Vet5: change 150% damage bonus to 75% damage bonus. Keep the insane 150% accuracy/penetration. This way it deals 280dmg instead of 400dmg.

That's not how balance work. You fix things that are broken and you buff/nerf things that are imba.

It's meant to be used for ambush, not for an improvised smoke/cloak device. There's almost 0 cooldown to activate/deactivate and it re enters cloak after 5s (same time it takes for it to fire till vet 3).

Fix:
-Add a 5s cooldown upon activation
-Move in combat status from 5s to 10s
-Increase penetration by 25%
-Vet5: change 150% damage bonus to 75% damage bonus. Keep the insane 150% accuracy/penetration. This way it deals 280dmg instead of 400dmg.

I understand what you are trying to say,but the whole premise of the OKW faction is to have vet 5 and imba units to compensate for resource penalty.All its once strong units are nerfed,vet 5 is unattainable.JP4 is probably last remaining useful cost-effective tank they have,u want to nerf it go ahead.Question is why keep OKW at all under such circumstances?They get all the penalties,but no advantages anymore.

I understand what you are trying to say,but the whole premise of the OKW faction is to have vet 5 and imba units to compensate for resource penalty.All its once strong units are nerfed,vet 5 is unattainable.JP4 is probably last remaining useful cost-effective tank they have,u want to nerf it go ahead.Question is why keep OKW at all under such circumstances?They get all the penalties,but no advantages anymore.

OKW are potentially meant to have stronger units. They are not meant to have over performing units.

The tank itself is fine but cloak not. I really like the idea with make cloak not working while in combat. easy fix and no overnerf.

You don't need always to destroy tanks in order to counter them. All you handheld at and raketenwerfer won't do anything against 2 at guns. Keeping units at bay or shut their play down means to counter.

The other points you raised I think have largely been addressed by other posters.

So in this case you seem to assume AT guns, which will still need a spotter to find the tank (now talking about +800 MP) are chasing. What happens if he has a Schwer set up? Or if he calls in a squad out of a building? Or if he has Sturms in front of his tank? Or even worse, what if it is a 2v2+ and they have some form of arty? What do I do now? I cannot use AT guns as my main form of AT since they will be picked off constantly, but if I rely on tanks I lose. You cannot rely solely on AT guns because they are exceedingly vulnerable to everything not a tank at long range.

Also AT guns are not a deterrent to a tank that can fire and recloak so fast that at most 1 shot will hit it. Its not like when its cloaked it doesn't have great maneuverability.

I get that OKW is supposed to have fewer and better units, but better should not mean units that cannot be killed. Better means units that can be heavy hitters if micro'd well. Right now this tank requires minimal micro. It is a rare game when I build this unit and do not get it to vet 5 easily, that should not be happening.

OKW are potentially meant to have stronger units. They are not meant to have over performing units.

I don't really see the difference.In terms of cost-effectiveness and ability,Is current sturmpio strong?Is ober strong?Is KT is strong.Not really anymore.The only strong OKW units are Leig and JP4.And jagdtiger.
Its a faction with normal units but penalties.

I cannot use AT guns as my main form of AT since they will be picked off constantly, but if I rely on tanks I lose.

"I can't counter this specialized tank destroyer with tanks! Also I'm going to assume my opponent outplays me at every turn while I theorycraft using other counters."

Smoke and flank is applicable here.

Attacking ground is pure theory craft in this case.

defending this ridiculous ability is ridiculous.

attack use attack ground is just lol.

for it to work, you gotta have a flat landscape and luck, because attack ground isn't accurate at all.

if you have a flanking tank, you have to stop to shoot which is counter-intuitive when flanking.

and you cannot have other enemy vehicles around because there is no hold fire for god knows why and once your turret rotate away from the target, your attack ground command must account for even more guess work as to where to JP4 would've gone to etc etc.

You could do about a dozen other things to reveal the fucking thing. You could use infantry, planes, abilities but if you forget about all that and charge your medium tanks head on at it then attack ground is your next best bet.

This is exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't be changed. It has clear, definitive and effective counters. It's not the game's fault y'all don't know how to use them.

That's not how balance work. You fix things that are broken and you buff/nerf things that are imba.

It's meant to be used for ambush, not for an improvised smoke/cloak device. There's almost 0 cooldown to activate/deactivate and it re enters cloak after 5s (same time it takes for it to fire till vet 3).

Fix:
-Add a 5s cooldown upon activation
-Move in combat status from 5s to 10s
-Increase penetration by 25%
-Vet5: change 150% damage bonus to 75% damage bonus. Keep the insane 150% accuracy/penetration. This way it deals 280dmg instead of 400dmg.

Yes on 5 sec cooldown, no on rest of the changes. You've to keep it alive for a long time to reach vet 5. It's the fast cloack that is gamebreaking

Smoke and flank.

L2P

quality argumentation when an obvious retarded mechanic is being discussed but when BabyRage gren spam stops working you pull out your allies op spreadsheets and analyze every single number while trying to crack the code why the 6 gren build isn't working.


A tank should not be able to instantly turn invisible while in combat with such stupid cloak implementation in the game. People say pack howi/isg facing is unneccesary micro but it's totally acceptable to babysit your tank to attack ground every 5 seconds so it doesn't get 1v1'd by a phasing tank even though you have the advantage.

JP4 is the best tank destroyer with it, and without combat cloak it will still be a top tier tank destroyer that comes out faster than most tanks. OKW has no issues with dealing with armor using jp4, meanwhile usf has to make monthly payments to the war god for AT gun ammunition that isn't made of paper, so spam AT guns doesn't work for every faction, and inb4 120 pen 80 dmg bazooka vs a tank that has 230 armor.

You could do about a dozen other things to reveal the fucking thing. You could use infantry, planes, abilities but if you forget about all that and charge your medium tanks head on at it then attack ground is your next best bet.

This is exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't be changed. It has clear, definitive and effective counters. It's not the game's fault y'all don't know how to use them.

can you list another 10 ways to reveal this thing except for the two you listed?

I understand what you are trying to say,but the whole premise of the OKW faction is to have vet 5 and imba units to compensate for resource penalty.All its once strong units are nerfed,vet 5 is unattainable.JP4 is probably last remaining useful cost-effective tank they have,u want to nerf it go ahead.Question is why keep OKW at all under such circumstances?They get all the penalties,but no advantages anymore.

Yea JPIV VET 5 with heat shell one shooting jacksons that's not imba at all

JPIV cloaking like a predator infront of troops and armor not imba

OKW got no advantages

ROFL, the best scalling units are OKW units

best stock units are in OKW (JPIV, Obers, Sturm, KT)


Back on topic, JPIV should be detected from a bit more far, it's BS to see the JPIV cloaking in negative cover

Cloaked JP4 and Raketen are extremely slow when they're cloaked.

Puppchen actually moves at normal speed in camo at vet1, you can scout and ambush freely.
Only thing that prohibited it from exploiting this advantage fully was the fact that crew went full retard and opened rifle fire at anything, revealing its position.