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Turbo Obers; Remove IS cover bonuses

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Nuclear Arbitor
13 Nov 2015, 07:27 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 06:47 AMJohnnyB


Yep, let's pretend that not all maps have tons of yellow and green cover and the only thing you have to do is move 2 steps left or right. What are we talking about....?


IS sections have a lot going against them because they have to remain stationary and in cover to get their bonuses. this makes IS only effective while defending from cover and weak against anything effective against stationary targets and anything that forces them to move. it's not an issue of cover availability (which on many maps is sparse in key areas) but a matter of IS only being useful in specific situations.
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ferwiner
13 Nov 2015, 08:04 AM
#22
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 05:49 AMFiresparks
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=1496803838

4 men tommies + bren:
18.6403|18.3199|17.8390|17.2244|16.6015


grenader + lmg42:
23.6135|20.6870|18.6943|17.0556|15.9961


the real issue is actually double bren on tommies.



So you are saying that you can keep double bren on IS? Especially 4-men one? With vet3? I mean you know that they start dropping their guns when they go down to 3 models, right?
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Katitof
13 Nov 2015, 08:32 AM
#23
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OP you do know that cover bonus for small arms is really small?

Its meaningful exclusively for PIATs.

They also have huge penalty on the move.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Firesparks
13 Nov 2015, 09:22 AM
#24
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 08:04 AMferwiner


So you are saying that you can keep double bren on IS? Especially 4-men one? With vet3? I mean you know that they start dropping their guns when they go down to 3 models, right?


tommies are pretty hard to kill at vet3, and if they drop a bren it's a matter of spending more munition. Unlike the guard who are significantly more fragile and more difficult to resupply.

I also buy the squad size upgrade first before buying a second bren.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 07:20 AMWhySooSerious


Btw 5 man upgrade boosts dps by 25%.


and the extra man also increase the pop upkeep on the tommies squad. It's not really "free" per say. What it does do is make it easier to retain squad.

also:

5 men tommies squad + 1 bren:

23.4146|22.5863|21.5556|20.3945|19.4939

it's definitely more powerful than a grenadier squad, but in the end you're still paying for the extra man.




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RMMLz
13 Nov 2015, 09:57 AM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 05:49 AMFiresparks
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=1496803838

4 men tommies + bren:
18.6403|18.3199|17.8390|17.2244|16.6015


grenader + lmg42:
23.6135|20.6870|18.6943|17.0556|15.9961


the real issue is actually double bren on tommies.



This. Double LMG is the issue, both with IS and Rifles. They are also pretty hard to kill, and at the current state a blob of 4 double bren IS is not a rare sight in 2v2s.

But the cover bonus is actually pretty good and I would like to see it on every infantry squad, promotes tactical play.

http://dadmand-art.ir/
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Muxsus
14 Nov 2015, 10:17 AM
#26
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I'd love to see the cover bonus to be an actual bonus instead of a penalty because as it stands piats on infantry sections are useless. Reducing DPS out of cover and increasing DPS in cover (right now the difference is almost unnoticeable) would go long ways to restrict blobbing. And of course remove double LMGs, but make brens and m1919s actually cost-effective.
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JLI
14 Nov 2015, 10:22 AM
#27
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since cover offers benefits to every infantry, every player..

what is the problem?
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Firesparks
14 Nov 2015, 10:28 AM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Nov 2015, 10:17 AMMuxsus
I'd love to see the cover bonus to be an actual bonus instead of a penalty because as it stands piats on infantry sections are useless. Reducing DPS out of cover and increasing DPS in cover (right now the difference is almost unnoticeable) would go long ways to restrict blobbing. And of course remove double LMGs, but make brens and m1919s actually cost-effective.


the main reason cover bonus is actually a penalty is so tommies doesn't become death gods if they ever grab a mg34.


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F1sh
14 Nov 2015, 12:27 PM
#29
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Posts: 521

threads like these is why the game balance is bad
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__deleted__
14 Nov 2015, 16:01 PM
#30
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Nov 2015, 20:41 PMferwiner
I'm pretty sure every brit player would agree with you. Why? Because the way it works now it is more a debuff when out of cover than buff in cover. They even get the special, weaker, version of bren that only performs when in cover. That means IS is a unit that needs carefull positioning to work instead of blobbing like all other long range infantry does, and that often one granade denaying cover means lost engagement even when dodged.

+1
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__deleted__
14 Nov 2015, 16:05 PM
#31
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Also they have flat Damage and are good only on cover. They are weak agains close range units , idirect fire , snipers , mgs and units in housing.

Lmg gren blob is not their intended counter.
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WhySooSerious
14 Nov 2015, 16:31 PM
#32
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Nov 2015, 09:22 AMFiresparks


tommies are pretty hard to kill at vet3, and if they drop a bren it's a matter of spending more munition. Unlike the guard who are significantly more fragile and more difficult to resupply.

I also buy the squad size upgrade first before buying a second bren.



and the extra man also increase the pop upkeep on the tommies squad. It's not really "free" per say. What it does do is make it easier to retain squad.

also:

5 men tommies squad + 1 bren:

23.4146|22.5863|21.5556|20.3945|19.4939

it's definitely more powerful than a grenadier squad, but in the end you're still paying for the extra man.




The 5th man will always pay himself off by killing stuff :P I just instantly get the 5th man upgrade after seeing the first ostruppen and get a vickers as my first unit built instead before more infantry sections :D
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