Ostheer (Wehrmacht) Grenadiers

try to apply rec.acc bonuses only behind cover and guess what, no one will blob like that casue it will lead to huge bleed and losing a game against opponent using cover.

Huh, that's a good idea.

vs usf the best thing you can do is never build grens... If you're fighting the faction with the best mainline infantry,and youre building mainline infantry to counter...No shit riflemen will stomp you.. just substitute with CHEAP AND SCALING Ostruppen,either mobile defense or the ostruppen doc, but even then not too many ostruppen,just 1 or 2. Just to have a Faust-Web for the light vehicles to protect ur sniper.

2 ostruppen and an MG + Pio will trade stupidly well with 2 riflemen and an RE for example.

get 2 MGs
and a sniper...
in no particular order. These are your cheat codes.

and then just focus on killing or deterring the light vehicle,whether its LT tier or captain tier, you should be able to put down 2 tellers since ur not buying LMGs and you dont NEED a med bunker,then have a field day,because cheap infantry supported by support weapons AND a sniper is straight up cheating vs USF.

Add in those 'shit' panzergrenadiers to support, maybe a 251,and usf player will be ripping their hair out at the impenetrability of your lines...unless theyre really fucken good. Or theyre just better than you.

The ONLY counterplay to that is lucky pack howie hits or a light vehicle seeping through and getting the sniper. Or just being bad/playing bad and not knowing how to use MGs and snipers.
Or playing on a map where snipers dont really have alot of clear shots.

Otherwise its pure cheats.

Brits its the same thing,no point in investing too heavily in grens when you know sections are really good/more potential to be better. So OSTRUPPEN. And countersnipe the brit one when he comes to counter you!

Vs soviets, grens are still grens. Raping conscripts, dueling with guards, and tackling shocks with MG support since 2013.
Ive fought a fair share of "4x Grens into Rifleman OP" opening type players.

Seriously, NO SHIT. You have no supression,no sniper,(which is blatantly ignoring all the strong units ostheer starts with)and your infantry is out gunned. OF COURSE youre gonna lose the line to riflemen.


And no I dont see any problemo with certain units being "not-sogood" vs certain factions. At all. Because otherwise Ostheer would roflstomp everyone if Grens could beat Sections and rifles 1v1,in addition to having the best support in the fucking game.

So even you agree grens are not really worth building vs usf and ukf?Well its good to see we agree then.
When u need doctrinal infantry present in only 1,to counter basic core infantry all is well.But ur basic premise is right,osttruppen and pzgrens are far better support troops for mg42 than grens which are no longer needed except vs 1 vs 1 soviets.More and more wehrmacht players are recognizing this.

So your view is not different from ours at all.Don't build grens.

The solution is giving Pios Kar98k with Volk profile, flame upgrade gives slightly buffed MP40s.

So even you agree grens are not really worth building vs usf and ukf?Well its good to see we agree then.
When u need doctrinal infantry present in only 1,to counter basic core infantry all is well.But ur basic premise is right,osttruppen and pzgrens are far better support troops for mg42 than grens which are no longer needed except vs 1 vs 1 soviets.More and more wehrmacht players are recognizing this.

So your view is not different from ours at all.Don't build grens.

No what you need is Sniper and HMG42, and Grenadiers to support them. Not the other way around. You can replace grens by ostruppen if you want a better unit effectivness/price from a commander. It is not like it is different for any other faction.

No what you need is Sniper and HMG42, and Grenadiers to support them. Not the other way around. You can replace grens by ostruppen if you want a better unit effectivness/price from a commander. It is not like it is different for any other faction.

Thats the point,grenadiers are not needed.There are better support units available.Too wipe-prone.Osttruppen wipe-proof and cost-effective.Pzgrens will protect mgs much better than grens and much better on offense.

I'm a COH1 veteran and made full jump to COH2 two months ago.

I played same number of matches as Wehrmacht and USF, before and after the big patch, and found that USF is uniformly stronger. In fact, vs all the allied factions I felt that USF is the strongest against Wehrmacht. There's a couple of reasons why:

- Grenades early on gives USF a great shock factor that requires Wehrmacht to play defensively.
- Ability cool down after throwing smoke grenade to grenade is none. This should be fixed.
- 4-man squads on Grenadiers is bigger issue than their damage output early game.
- Panzergrenadiers, as much as I love them, are fragile and I use them for ambushes and clearing garrisons. I find that it's easier to lose a squad of PG than Grenadiers.
- In the late game, Vet 3 Grenadiers scale worse than Rifles and Panzergrenadiers are relegated to support role due to high reinforce cost and swishyness.

Originally grens were meant to be a match up for Cons (Grens having better DPS per model, Cons having a overall squad survivability being a squad of 6)

But since Rifles have been introduced, Grens have always struggles against rifles, one of the only things keeping them going is the poor rifle vet scaling, which recently has been changed.

Rifles vs grens
DPS goes to rifles at close and mid range and grens at long, but with combat ranges in game rifles win.

Survivability go to rifles, in the early game they have the higher squad size meaning they can stay in a fight slightly longer then grens, mixed with their higher DPS giving them a massive advantage.

Before rifles wouldn't scale that great, but with recent changes to their rec accuracy, meaning the scale better as the game goes on.

The only thing keeping Grens slight viable is the LMG upgrade.



Personally I believe grens have just been powercreeped, honestly a 5 man upgrade, hard to stay what it would do, I'd do two things to grens, rework the vet for wher and soviets (vet 1 abilities) compared to WFA and Brits vet, or the other option would be revert the G43 and LMG combo (able to upgrade both on a squad) although this second option would have to be tested more.

Only faction that deserve buff is OKW , they are unplayable.

And if you want to buff osther them buff light vehiles adjust cost for pak to british at gun , give them acessable tier 4 but please no dont buff core infantry i dont want to see 6 grens vs 5 rifles meta 2.0

Only faction that deserve buff is OKW , they are unplayable.

And if you want to buff osther them buff light vehiles adjust cost for pak to british at gun , give them acessable tier 4 but please no dont buff core infantry i dont want to see 6 grens vs 5 rifles meta 2.0

No one said anything about 6 grens.... It would be a unit upgrade to 5 not 6

No one said anything about 6 grens.... It would be a unit upgrade to 5 not 6

He is referring to 6 gren squads vs 5 rifle squads meta. In other word grenspam because gren are too good.

Yes because 5 man grenadier squads for 240 mp will solve absolutely every problem


Grens are cheap and cost effective, and that's not good enough?

+1

UsF need late game buf
All aixe factions are good inuf
M26 is a joke and rangere ... for there cost

+1

All aixe factions are good inuf

Ok ,because you said so.

Ok ,because you said so.

Ok grens suck because you said so

Ok grens suck because you said so

I'm not the only one saying it,many others are saying the same.

No one said anything about 6 grens.... It would be a unit upgrade to 5 not 6

Gren or in whole world grenadiers mean in coh2 squad that cosist of 4 men , its core main line ifnantry for ostheer (wehrmach) faction that has multiple functions including riflenades , building bunkers panzerfaust and lmg upgrade. They are great at long range as lon as they are stationary and in cover.

So I was telling you that we will see 6 grens spam if you give them buff to 5 men (even if you pay for it) because of their utility and firepower (IS doesnt get rifle granade or faust)

So you misunderstood me i was not talking about squad members but about squads.


Yes we can do it but this upgrade will be passivly unlocked after you reach batle phase 3, but then will also Soviets should get LMG Dp28 once you build all tiers.

I'm not the only one saying it,many others are saying the same.

Like Johnny and Zyllen?

Grens are SUPPOSED to be overwhelmed by other infantry if you spam them alone like a retard.
There are early potent support weapons for a reason accessible right off the bat to you as opposed to allied factions(except brits, who are equally dependent on supporting units as ost).
If you want to play with just basic infantry, play the faction that actually is designed to do so and protip: its not ostheer nor OKW.

We had Cons and Grens, most basic infantry, quite well balanced.

Then we recevied vet 5 Volks with enormour rec. acc and immortal Obers.

Then Cons and Rifles recevied rec.acc buff.

Ten vet 3 tommies with double bren with cover bonys.

Now Grens are left behind. Solution? Buff rec. acc.

With such approach we will face vet 3 elite squads with 0.2 rec. acc while basic infantry will have 0.5

The question is simple. Do vetted units use cover more effectively? Sure.
Do they dodge bullets when staind on the open field? Not a chance.

That's why I'd love to see 1 rec. acc for everyone with great bonuses only behind cover.
That would solve OP/UP rec. acc on most units and force to play with cover since Rifles blobs of doom would bleed like hell.

With current approach we can except Grens buff, then Volks buff and then again cry for Cons buff.
Point is, rec. acc is killing the game. With low (lower better) rec. acc you can blob through open field like no tomorrow, but try to apply rec.acc bonuses only behind cover and guess what, no one will blob like that casue it will lead to huge bleed and losing a game against opponent using cover.

just asking...but that solution will punish short range squads. Short range squads have to close the gap, they can´t stay in green cover at long range coz they will lose. If they have to close with a worse rec. acc. because "on the open" than their enemy (that is already in a better position , you know, green cover, better accuracy because they stand still and so on), they won´t be able to be used effectively....

Won´t be this a bit tooo much????

Have you though about that???


again, just asking, not saying your proposal is a bad solution....

just asking...but that solution will punish short range squads. Short range squads have to close the gap, they can´t stay in green cover at long range coz they will lose. If they have to close with a worse rec. acc. because "on the open" than their enemy (that is already in a better position , you know, green cover, better accuracy because they stand still and so on), they won´t be able to be used effectively....

Won´t be this a bit tooo much????

Have you though about that???


again, just asking, not saying your proposal is a bad solution....

Yes, I have thought about it as well and the solution is quite simple.

Give all close comabt units sprint ability and/or smoke nades.

Not to mention armor on Shock troops which makes them much more durable on the open field than any other (and it should be like that, yet vetted inf, becasue of rec. acc is more durable )

Plus, I find that CC units should be used in a different way than charging straight. Hide them behind corner, go around and flank etc

Like Johnny and Zyllen?

Grens are SUPPOSED to be overwhelmed by other infantry if you spam them alone like a retard.
There are early potent support weapons for a reason accessible right off the bat to you as opposed to allied factions(except brits, who are equally dependent on supporting units as ost).
If you want to play with just basic infantry, play the faction that actually is designed to do so and protip: its not ostheer nor OKW.

in short you are playing a gimped version of the brits with non of the cool toys the brits get. Even so your arguments is a contradiction. brits do have the option to have a 5 man squad and yet you have no problems with that

in short you are playing a gimped version of the brits with non of the cool toys the brits get. Even so your arguments is a contradiction. brits do have the option to have a 5 man squad and yet you have no problems with that

No, I don't for a singular reason.

Axis are balanced to put out firepower to deal with 5-6 man squads and brits have 4 by default.
USF team weapons already are testament to that firepower, dying in moments compared to soviet counterparts.
Already forgot why ost sniper had to be nerfed and how he is still extremely effective?

Meanwhile, allied units are still balanced to fight 4-5 men squads, fun stuff happens when units like osttruppen and pfussiliers swarm the field and get some vet stars.

So again no, there isn't any contradiction, just one confused player blind to the wide picture.