Iagree with HelpingHans

I was watching HelpingHans playing Ostheer (wehrmacht) vs USF 1v1 last night. Basically, HelpingHans is a very good player and to hear HelpingHans talk about how Ostheer struggling vs USF its absolutley on the money. USF has the edge the whole beginning of the game. And if USF has the edge, then they have the map control and resource control and you cant counter mid game.

As I have been saying for past 6 months Ostheer (Wehrmacht) has to rely on perfect game, and lucky teller mines. BTW, Ostheer in reality was a very offensive army during WW2, remember the BlitzKrieg in the Russian invasion or France? I dont understand this conservitive play style relic has made the Ostheer into, thats not the Wehrmacht I have learned about in History.

Thank You

This is lategame wehrmacht,thats why defensive.
Problem with coh2 wehr currently is at no point in the game can it bring out a true shock unit,its reacting whole game.
The infantry problem lategame is also blobbing.This RE with 1919 owning stuff is disgusting to watch.

Aren't there enough Allies OP threads yet? I'm pretty sure Relic knows whats going on right now. They look at the numbers, you know

Aren't there enough Allies OP threads yet? I'm pretty sure Relic knows whats going on right now. They look at the numbers, you know

If they do know, why after 2 years its still unbalanced?

Aren't there enough Allies OP threads yet? I'm pretty sure Relic knows whats going on right now. They look at the numbers, you know

The only number they care is $$$ other numbers ? What numbers ?

The only number they care is $$$ other numbers ? What numbers ?

They said more than once in their stream they balance the stuff according to numbers. They gain information of everything that happens in the game I guess.

Numbers speak the truth

The only thing that triggers me about allies right now is the infantry sections. With the ability to dual equip LMG's, have 5 man squads, better veterancy, and having the ability to build cover/trenches. Are cheaper to reinforce than grenadiers.

Yeah, they are defensive because soviet and ostheer factions are dated after Kursk and that was the last major german offensive action on eastern front.

As for numbers it is true that relic gains all kind of information like win ratios, most build units, most played factions and so on. What they are coming to the formus is mainly finding bugs and ideas not the mere information about the state of the game.

The only thing that triggers me about allies right now is the infantry sections. With the ability to dual equip LMG's, have 5 man squads, better veterancy, and having the ability to build cover/trenches. Are cheaper to reinforce than grenadiers.

Well, giving IS a bren is a bren given to your opponent so you know, not the best idea. They drop even more than guards. It is far better to give lmgs to sappers and here is sth you can call a problem in team games.

Coh was originally designed as a game where all factions were balanced across all moments of the game. That is the best way to balance factions with wildly different unit compositions.

The idea was basically to have all factions with equal 'power' at all times, but with the aggressive advantage going to one side and the defensive advantage to the other for each game 'phase'.

Unfortunatly, with COH2, this design base was never solidified, and the game devolved into straight advantages for certain factions at certain times (okw, usf, ukf). The vanilla factions became purely defensive (ost) or offensive based with all the shock units (sovs).

Because of this issue, the game has become impossible to balance in the traditional coh way, due to the fact that both sides have advantages all over the place.

Short of perfect balance in terms of unit power with their cost, the game will always have balance issues, and even with perfect unit balance, some factions will still have the advantage based off of their ability to field "shock units" that give them the initiative (soviet t3, usf midgame).

I really don't know any simple solution to this besides a radical redesign of all factions, and since that is impossible, I also don't forsee balance ever really being perfect.

Not to say they shouldn't try, but i don't expect the game to become well balanced in any short range timeframe, especially when we have new factions and commanders arriving, and most certainly not with the synergies available in teamgames.

Who?

Maybe you should try playing Ostheer OP

Coh was originally designed as a game where all factions were balanced across all moments of the game. That is the best way to balance factions with wildly different unit compositions.

The idea was basically to have all factions with equal 'power' at all times, but with the aggressive advantage going to one side and the defensive advantage to the other for each game 'phase'.

Unfortunatly, with COH2, this design base was never solidified, and the game devolved into straight advantages for certain factions at certain times (okw, usf, ukf). The vanilla factions became purely defensive (ost) or offensive based with all the shock units (sovs).

Because of this issue, the game has become impossible to balance in the traditional coh way, due to the fact that both sides have advantages all over the place.

Short of perfect balance in terms of unit power with their cost, the game will always have balance issues, and even with perfect unit balance, some factions will still have the advantage based off of their ability to field "shock units" that give them the initiative (soviet t3, usf midgame).

I really don't know any simple solution to this besides a radical redesign of all factions, and since that is impossible, I also don't forsee balance ever really being perfect.

Not to say they shouldn't try, but i don't expect the game to become well balanced in any short range timeframe, especially when we have new factions and commanders arriving, and most certainly not with the synergies available in teamgames.

+1,000,000. Sums up my thoughts when relic did that faction overview graphic showing what factions they thought were strong at what phases in the game. Completely flawed design principle.

USF basically starts at t0.5, then goes t1.5, t2.5, t3.5, whereas Ost goes 0,1,2,3,4 - always a step behind until the very end which it can rarely get to and can exploit usf's own design flaw

Before USF BAR blobs
we had PPSH cons with Hit the dirt,
after that came PZ IV Spamming and STUKA STRAFE META (including IL-2 strafe),
Then we had LMG Grenadiers & MG 42´s suppressing everything with the bulletin (ISU-152 became too good),
Then the PTRS META happened with T34/85 callins,
and we had OP Obersoldaten,

and here we are now...with Axis players suffering from USF forces

( Even with perfect balance the RNG could still tip the balance to a certain direction and mess everything up )



(Forgot about OP IS-2, Tiger Ace, STUG-E, KV-8, OP MAXIM FROM 2013 & CAS/Windustry but they have been dealth with)

Coh was originally designed as a game where all factions were balanced across all moments of the game. That is the best way to balance factions with wildly different unit compositions.

The idea was basically to have all factions with equal 'power' at all times, but with the aggressive advantage going to one side and the defensive advantage to the other for each game 'phase'.

Unfortunatly, with COH2, this design base was never solidified, and the game devolved into straight advantages for certain factions at certain times (okw, usf, ukf). The vanilla factions became purely defensive (ost) or offensive based with all the shock units (sovs).

Because of this issue, the game has become impossible to balance in the traditional coh way, due to the fact that both sides have advantages all over the place.

Short of perfect balance in terms of unit power with their cost, the game will always have balance issues, and even with perfect unit balance, some factions will still have the advantage based off of their ability to field "shock units" that give them the initiative (soviet t3, usf midgame).

I really don't know any simple solution to this besides a radical redesign of all factions, and since that is impossible, I also don't forsee balance ever really being perfect.

Not to say they shouldn't try, but i don't expect the game to become well balanced in any short range timeframe, especially when we have new factions and commanders arriving, and most certainly not with the synergies available in teamgames.

Bravo,very well said.

They said more than once in their stream they balance the stuff according to numbers. They gain information of everything that happens in the game I guess.

Numbers speak the truth

Hah what a joke. Relic always overnerf or overbuff units. I know people who made balance mods and they fixed most of the issues in a week while relic still haven't fixed or balanced it in years.

Well, giving IS a bren is a bren given to your opponent so you know, not the best idea. They drop even more than guards. It is far better to give lmgs to sappers and here is sth you can call a problem in team games.

And that's something they need to fix, spamming half a dozen Engineers should not be a replacement for Infantry.

Coh was originally designed as a game where all factions were balanced across all moments of the game. That is the best way to balance factions with wildly different unit compositions.

Huh? vCoH was all about the Americans early game advantage into the Wehrmacht late game advantage. Then OPF came out and we got the British with their weak early and strong late, and Panzer Elite which was a really weird faction and their advantages depended on what you unlocked.


As for Hans stream yesterday, how about that single Pack Howitzer winning the game by suppressing Hans entire advance with a couple shells? Pack Howitzer / ISG suppression is still bullshit, Relic still refuses to remove it for some reason.

Huh? vCoH was all about the Americans early game advantage into the Wehrmacht late game advantage. Then OPF came out and we got the British with their weak early and strong late, and Panzer Elite which was a really weird faction and their advantages depended on what you unlocked.

This is not true.Even earlygame volks in cover at long range could counter rifles .BARS gave rifles big advantage,but vet 2 purchase could level field for grens.There were minimal bullshit 1 shot squadwipes except from heavy artillery.
Here from the start rifles will roflstomp you regardless of cover or range.....
I really miss those classic 1 vs 1 at angoville or fun mega 4 vs 4 at montargis.

And that's something they need to fix, spamming half a dozen Engineers should not be a replacement for Infantry.



Huh? vCoH was all about the Americans early game advantage into the Wehrmacht late game advantage. Then OPF came out and we got the British with their weak early and strong late, and Panzer Elite which was a really weird faction and their advantages depended on what you unlocked.


As for Hans stream yesterday, how about that single Pack Howitzer winning the game by suppressing Hans entire advance with a couple shells? Pack Howitzer / ISG suppression is still bullshit, Relic still refuses to remove it for some reason.

Idk how the vcoh meta was over all the years since I seriously got in to the game around 2011 but 2.602 the "American early game advantage" is a myth. The Americans T1 infantry are better than Volks, but thats about it. You can argue it becomes easier for WM to expand as the game progress but by no means are they clinging on for life in the early game. And then late game Americans get superior vet 3 infantry, snipers, supply yard upgrades, OMCG, supply drops, etc. US did not become weaker and weaker as the game went on in the same fashion that some factions and many commanders within them have suffered in coh2.

About Hans: hes pretty good player probably top 50 for sure possibly top 25 as far as COH2 players go. But people equate twitch popularity to being top tier which is not the case. The perennial tourney top finishers like Aimstrong, OMGPOP, Barton, Noggano, etc are not in the same skill bracket with him.