Petition to give OKW a non-doctrinal MG

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ISG and pack's suppresion are both bullshit stuff. Everybody wished they were gone, but Relic decided not to do that and added a little more micro to it. We should keep convince Relic it was not good change.

It seems you don't know why this topic even emerged. Above all, this faction has shown severely lower win-rate than others in 1vs1. http://coh2chart.com/ Check it. This is not a cons and pros joke. If you feel that's fine, you're far away from the reality deluding yourself.

You have forward bases, ISG and a shit ton of flak.

How can you complain about not having suppression? SU hardly has any AT infantry but no complaints from them.

Do read whole discussion above, not just poking the wrong stuff at my reply heading to a certain person, out of blue.

huge text wall

not to sound like a complete ass, lol but if u want a non-doctrinal MG maybe play as the Wehrmact?

It would have a lot more lasting utility if it were given a toggle ability to switch into a fixed firing arc like any other MG unit, requiring a setup time, no longer being able to fire on the move, but also have an instant teardown time for backing away (think: 251/17 flaktrack).

But then it cannot hunt Snipers.

Typical comment .

Several mediocre suppression units do not take the place of a competent suppression units.

Disagree on giving stock MG34 for OKW, agree on a major faction overhaul (that probably is never going to happen).

Relic said it might happen.

i agree to adding an non doc MG, but i think the problem is is you HAVE To go obers to have effective AI infantry. For those of us who dont like going luff, or JT

While a nondoctrinal mg would help, I would rather see volksgrenadiers reworked. Make them cost 300 mp and more popcap, with better stock rifles (grenadier stats?). After 1 truck is built, they can upgrade to either 1 panzershreck and the ability to build sandbags, or 3 STGs and some kind of utility ability (smoke?).

This way, blobbing volks becomes less of an issue, due to their high cost. It will also lessen OKWs propensity to float.

In return, OKW finally gets a good scaling basic infantry force, which can be useful on the assault with STGs, or on the defensive with their rifles and sandbags. It will also make OKW feel more like the specialist army that it was originally, and make OKW more decision based as to where they want their munitions going, making them feel more 'starved'.

Thats just my view on the matter though.

I like the idea, and let's call them... hum... Sturmpioners!!!

Several mediocre suppression units do not take the place of a competent suppression units.

*Sigh*
"Ok" dude. Thanks for your enlightening comment.

My ideas for a volk rework/suppression fix

USF buys riflemen who will always function roughly the same with minor changes depending on how you equip them. The 'nature' of the squad doesn't change.

How about OKW you buy the cheap infantry squad - volks - then upgrade them in a way that fundamentally changes how the squad operates.

Basic volk squad would come with basic kars, they can then be upgraded with an mg42 which gives them the ability to set up a suppression cone, but can't be fired on the move and needs a setup/teardown time. Effectively changing the squad from basic infantry to a support weapon.

Other upgrade could be mp40/stg44 upgrade turning them into assault troops, or a repair upgrade turning them into good vehicle support troops with maybe a Faust snare ability too.

Or thinking more radically - you want a puppchen? Buy volks, upgrade them to be a puppchen squad - puppchen can even already retreat like a normal support weapon.

Each of these upgrades could be tied to the deployment of a tech building that makes an interesting choice for the player.

If you want elite infantry you still need obers to fill the gap like paras or falls. Remove the suppression from kubel after this change, give pshreck to Sturm's with toggle ability same as minesweeper.

It would even make a sort of thematic sense as volks being a cheap basic unit that needs to be trained into a specialised dedicated role.

not to sound like a complete ass, lol but if u want a non-doctrinal MG maybe play as the Wehrmact?

Not signed the problem is not the mg34

ISG and pack's suppresion are both bullshit stuff. Everybody wished they were gone, but Relic decided not to do that and added a little more micro to it. We should keep convince Relic it was not good change.

It seems you don't know why this topic even emerged. Above all, this faction has shown severely lower win-rate than others in 1vs1. http://coh2chart.com/ Check it. This is not a cons and pros joke. If you feel that's fine, you're far away from the reality deluding yourself.

I'm all for taking away the supression on the ISG and packs if that's what you want. But I'm not for the mg-34. You already have the kubel, ISG (currently) and flack bases. Also why would you not go a commander without the mg34? I know that's the point of this thread, but the best commanders (even with a mg34 taken out) have some of the best abilities. But coh2chart.com doesn't mean crap. (not to be that guy) but I've consistently floated the top 100 ranking in 3 vs 3 even when allies on coh2chart had our win percentage down in the dirt with OKW at 75% win rate.

The one thing I have dramatically noticed is that the amount of shit axis players playing recently. A lot of people moved over to play brits and the new USF commander as of late. So it's no surprise to me that the win rate is going down. Also if you look at the team games, it's actually quite equal. And also COh2chart also shows that 4 vs 4 is the most played game mode. but overall coh2chart doesn't mean much...it doesn't take into account the skew if there's simply better players on either team,

Edit: I would however be okay with giving the OKW a mg34 and make it like allied light scout cars (maybe even allow transport) if the kubel didn't have the suppression ability. Otherwising having both I can see it right now...Mg34 in the back, kubel preventing flanking, AT in the back...making a pretty hard wall to counter in the very beginning in the first few minutes...

Several mediocre suppression units do not take the place of a competent suppression units.

And replacing several mediocre suppression units with one competent suppression unit, does not make the replaced units any more useful in other roles, it just makes them all useless. At that point you might as well delete flaktrack and Kubel.

If a suppression unit is being mediocre, the solution is to make it better, not find another unit and replace it. So far Relic has been doing just that- tweaking the stats of units and not just replacing them with units that already have said stats.

Swapping the kubel with the Mg34 would be awesome. Where do I have to sign? Maybe we could start a poll for Relic to see it?

Kubel works great for suppression right up until the point where the enemy faction can build AT guns, and then it dies instantly, assuming it wasn't rolled over by a fast light vehicle. It needs some serious negative received accuracy while moving vs AT weapons for it to scale past 5 minutes, otherwise it will just continue to get dumpstered by literally every vehicle in the game. I'm sure most OKW players have experienced this moment countless times where you're doing well in the game only to have your singular precious suppression platform vaporize right before you're pushed well off the map.

OKW has nothing that suppresses that wont get annihilated almost instantly by AT guns that shoot from well behind the giant infantry blob you're trying to fend off. The big desire for a non doctrinal MG is for it to be an infantry based weapon team that you can actually keep alive without absolutely crazy babysitting. Allied players get to right click on our kubel with an AT gun and Axis players are expected to perform unending wrist-injuring micro to counter this? That seems like an echo of the sentiments on this forum.

With that said I still think all of this is just a symptom of the fact that volksgrendiers are fucking useless. You can't hold against the wall of allied infantry bearing down on you without suppression because your volks just fall over. Literally everyone except for the most staunch allied fanboys agree that volks fucking suck, and only with suppression can they hope to do anything mid-game onward given how poorly their vet scales vs Allied infantry.

Kubel works great for suppression right up until the point where the enemy faction can build AT guns, and then it dies instantly.

It has an ability that detects things for a reason. You can know exactly where the AT gun is positioned, and they have to move it pretty close to the front for it to shoot the kubel that is keeping its distance.

It's also already really hard for things to hit while it is moving. I've dodged more than a few Zis shots or bazooka shots with a kubel wagon.

It has an ability that detects things for a reason. You can know exactly where the AT gun is positioned, and they have to move it pretty close to the front for it to shoot the kubel that is keeping its distance.

It's also already really hard for things to hit while it is moving. I've dodged more than a few Zis shots or bazooka shots with a kubel wagon.

Okay so you backed your kubel away.. now what? Useless after 5 minutes.

Also vet 1 isn't a guarantee, so its survival shouldn't hinge on it.

But then it cannot hunt Snipers.

Yeah it can, I said only when it's locked down it wouldn't be able to move. It'd still be able to fire on the move not in lockdown mode, it just wouldn't have suppression.

Okay so you backed your kubel away.. now what? Useless after 5 minutes.

Also vet 1 isn't a guarantee, so its survival shouldn't hinge on it.

It's called kiting.

If he just mindlessly right clicks your kubel, backing up a bit and setting up forces him to spend ~5 seconds moving it. Meanwhile, his infantry are still suppressed and being shot by your mans.

The further he moves up chasing the kubel, the easier it is to flank and kill his AT gun too.

I'm all for taking away the supression on the ISG and packs if that's what you want. But I'm not for the mg-34. You already have the kubel, ISG (currently) and flack bases. Also why would you not go a commander without the mg34? I know that's the point of this thread, but the best commanders (even with a mg34 taken out) have some of the best abilities. But coh2chart.com doesn't mean crap. (not to be that guy) but I've consistently floated the top 100 ranking in 3 vs 3 even when allies on coh2chart had our win percentage down in the dirt with OKW at 75% win rate.

The one thing I have dramatically noticed is that the amount of shit axis players playing recently. A lot of people moved over to play brits and the new USF commander as of late. So it's no surprise to me that the win rate is going down. Also if you look at the team games, it's actually quite equal. And also COh2chart also shows that 4 vs 4 is the most played game mode. but overall coh2chart doesn't mean much...it doesn't take into account the skew if there's simply better players on either team,

Edit: I would however be okay with giving the OKW a mg34 and make it like allied light scout cars (maybe even allow transport) if the kubel didn't have the suppression ability. Otherwising having both I can see it right now...Mg34 in the back, kubel preventing flanking, AT in the back...making a pretty hard wall to counter in the very beginning in the first few minutes...

coh2chart definitely mean something on 1vs1 and 2vs2, because it shows top 150 ladder player's win rates.
Player numbers don't matter on those modes. Larger modes balance? Well.... I think smaller modes needs to be balanced first for the larger e-sport fan base, but that's just my opinion.

I didn't say mg34 and kubel both needs suppresion. JohnnyB suggested great change and I totally agree it.
Go check page 6 on this topic for checking his opinion.

Stupid suggestion that will water down faction diversity via increased mirroring.

When I face Ostheer, I know I have to play with the MG42 as a looming threat. I know I will need smoke or indirect fire to kill it.

On the other hand, when I face OKW, I know that the Kubelwagen is a threat I'll have to deal with via others means -- typically a Captain's bazooka, an AT nade, or an AT gun.

This is a classic instance of PEBCAK.