I think with the increase of allied infantry scalling that the scaling of whermacht infantry is to bad. There grens and pgrens are to bad in late game.
That is why they need there increase of squad size on the way british currently have it.
The suggestion
Increase battle phase 2 cost by 15 feul and 100 manpower and increase the squad size by 1 for grens and panzergrens.
So that they also scale in late game. Without making the early game from the whermacht stronger. So that espacially whermacht vs brits becomes more balanced. Because currently it is hard to survive the early game as british but if you can it is really hard to win als wher player.
Whermacht inf squad size
3 Nov 2015, 10:24 AM
#1
Posts: 281
3 Nov 2015, 10:26 AM
#2
Posts: 362
They were fine with four guys back in CoH1. They don't need four guys now.
... And haven't we seen this thread before?
... And haven't we seen this thread before?
3 Nov 2015, 10:26 AM
#3
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
But you do realize that allied infantry got increased scaling because axis inf overperformed it greatly for the cost, especially in late game, right?
Rifles had trash vet(great early game, no point over RET spam in late game) and cons were just CP and vet fodder before the changes.
Rifles had trash vet(great early game, no point over RET spam in late game) and cons were just CP and vet fodder before the changes.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Nov 2015, 10:27 AM
#4
Posts: 473
Permanently BannedI think with the increase of allied infantry scalling that the scaling of whermacht infantry is to bad. There grens and pgrens are to bad in late game.
That is why they need there increase of squad size on the way british currently have it.
The suggestion
Increase battle phase 2 cost by 15 feul and 100 manpower and increase the squad size by 1 for grens and panzergrens.
So that they also scale in late game. Without making the early game from the whermacht stronger. So that espacially whermacht vs brits becomes more balanced. Because currently it is hard to survive the early game as british but if you can it is really hard to win als wher player.
Agreed. I think it would be better to make a seperate upgrade available in the HQ after battlephase 2 has completed. The cost would better at 15 fuel and 150 mp in my opinion.
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
3 Nov 2015, 10:27 AM
#5
Posts: 473
Permanently BannedBut you do realize that allied infantry got increased scaling because axis inf overperformed it greatly for the cost, especially in late game, right?
You referring to the bug that made grens do way more then they should?
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
3 Nov 2015, 10:28 AM
#6
Posts: 473
Permanently BannedThey were fine with four guys back in CoH1. They don't need four guys now.
... And haven't we seen this thread before?
With that logic we can surely make things work out indeed. Knights cross holders were doing just fine with their bought vet 3 at 4 men squads. Perhaps we should introduce them to bolster Ostheer ranks a bit. After all, they were doing just fine with four guys back in CoH1.
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
3 Nov 2015, 10:30 AM
#7
Posts: 281
But you do realize that allied infantry got increased scaling because axis inf overperformed it greatly for the cost, especially in late game, right?
Rifles had trash vet(great early game, no point over RET spam in late game) and cons were just CP and vet fodder before the changes.
Yes, but currently grens gets totaly outscalled by rifles and IS. Of course they should be better giving the fact that they cost more but grens need something.
3 Nov 2015, 10:30 AM
#8
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
You referring to the bug that made grens do way more then they should?
No, I'm referring to the pile of steaming poo that was rifle vet bonuses in comparison to any other infantry squad in game and conscript lack of scaling due to lack of any stock weapon upgrades and doctrinal upgrades performing extremely poorly.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Nov 2015, 10:31 AM
#9
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
But you do realize that allied infantry got increased scaling because axis inf overperformed it greatly for the cost, especially in late game, right?
Rifles had trash vet(great early game, no point over RET spam in late game) and cons were just CP and vet fodder before the changes.
Problem is that axis infantry underperforms now.
Grens cost more to reinforce than Tommies lol.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
3 Nov 2015, 10:34 AM
#10
Posts: 281
They were fine with four guys back in CoH1. They don't need four guys now.
... And haven't we seen this thread before?
how they where performing has nothing to do with how they perform five years later. Same as saying marines in starcraft 2 are fine so are rifleman.
3 Nov 2015, 10:34 AM
#11
Posts: 473
Permanently Banned
No, I'm referring to the pile of steaming poo that was rifle vet bonuses in comparison to any other infantry squad in game and conscript lack of scaling due to lack of any stock weapon upgrades and doctrinal upgrades performing extremely poorly.
Ah yes, but instead of fixing it all together, they simply turned the situation around and now Axis infantry are pulling the short end of the stick here. Better fix it all together instead of giving everyone their time of clubbing.
Whenever I face USF as OKW, it feels like I have been strapped down into a mental hospital wheelchair, with legs that can't reach the floor to move myself forward and a nurse is trying to move the wheelchair backwards whilst I have to race a formula one car for a best of three laps.
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
It feels handicapped from the start
No thumbs, cute and a lot of furry fluffiness, I am the ultimate kitten and by the heavens, am I angry!
3 Nov 2015, 10:35 AM
#12
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Problem is that axis infantry underperforms now.
Grens cost more to reinforce than Tommies lol.
And 4 man Obers reinforce for less then 5 man rangers at the same squad cost.
Axis infantry is not supposed to stand toe to toe to allied infantry, it never was, intended use always resolved around supporting units, weapon teams, halftrucks, other infantry types(this especially in OKW case).
Volks are AT squad, they will never fight on pair with AI mainline inf.
Grens beat cons depending on range, but why should they contest more expensive infantry that loads twice the muni into the upgrades?
You should be relying on grens as protection for HMGs and snipers and vols as meat shields for AI infantry(unless you use pfussies, then you can do wild with them)
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
3 Nov 2015, 10:40 AM
#13
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
You referring to the bug that made grens do way more then they should?
He refering to, for example, "Commander-with-elite-inf-or-GTFO" meta for Soviets.
Also it was combined with "Commander-with-late-vehicle-call-in-or-GTFO" rule, leaving 2 commanders (Shock Rifle, Guard Motor) and 2 more with ISU (before it was nerfed).
At least now I feel that I can get away with cons supported by either snipers or team weapons.
Stock vehicles are still crap, except extremely OP cost-efficient SU-76 and T-70 because of its timing.
Speaking of USF - you can't say that balance is OK when players prefer to build engineer unit instead of basic infantry.
But, nevertheless, it seems like Relic did that in its overbuff way again.
3 Nov 2015, 10:43 AM
#14
10 
Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3
And 4 man Obers reinforce for less then 5 man rangers at the same squad cost.
Axis infantry is not supposed to stand toe to toe to allied infantry, it never was, intended use always resolved around supporting units, weapon teams, halftrucks, other infantry types(this especially in OKW case).
Volks are AT squad, they will never fight on pair with AI mainline inf.
Grens beat cons depending on range, but why should they contest more expensive infantry that loads twice the muni into the upgrades?
You should be relying on grens as protection for HMGs and snipers and vols as meat shields for AI infantry(unless you use pfussies, then you can do wild with them)
1. Where the hell is OKW able to play with a good mix of Support Weapons?
2. no other faction has a specialized AT squad as starting Unit. Volks should be able to at least stand up to fair fight with other core inf.
3. Volks as meatshield for which AI Inf? Grens just as cover for Support Weapons? Come on
3 Nov 2015, 11:02 AM
#15
Posts: 281
You should be relying on grens as protection for HMGs and snipers and volks as meat shields for AI infantry(unless you use pfussies, then you can do wild with them)
You should be relying on grens as protection? whut?
British also have teamweapons and snipers and good late game infantry. And for what role are panzergrens than?
3 Nov 2015, 11:02 AM
#16
Posts: 1930
But you do realize that allied infantry got increased scaling because axis inf overperformed it greatly for the cost, especially in late game, right?
correction, the lmg42 overperform greatly for its cost. If you compare the lmg42 to other 60 munition upgrade (bren, bar), it's obvious the lmg42 is far away the best.
Even the theoretically equal m1919a6 cost 10 mu more. The only weapons more cost effective than the lmg42 is the lmg34 and the commando bren.
Lmg42 should have been nerfed, instead of buffing the rifleman veterancy. LMG have been a balance and gameplay problem ever since the original game release. The current reverse dps curve just add to the problem.
3 Nov 2015, 11:06 AM
#17
Posts: 1487
If i got it right most (maybe all) mirror games in haloween cup were OH vs OH.
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3 Nov 2015, 11:06 AM
#18
Posts: 281
You are also realising that the lmg-42 is the only upragde for grens. Other than bar and bren where you can equip two of them. Still is shitty that cons don't have a upragde.
3 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM
#19
Posts: 253
If you think about it Brits is literally a updated Osteer, in almost every department.
I mean I dont mind that, but Osteer didn't deserve to get left behind the brits.
anyway the ladder right now is pretty bad. Im a top 200 Brit player, and I cant get games because everyone up there is playing USF.
So I play Osteer, and after a few days of games i found out
1
turzdorf is unplayable as Osteer
2:You cant beat a top USF player in 1v1 auto
3:Rifle company and heavy calvary are broken
Whatever relic developer gavesmoke grenades to riflemen and then added a cheap smoke barrage to a p2p meta commander hates Osteer
I mean I dont mind that, but Osteer didn't deserve to get left behind the brits.
anyway the ladder right now is pretty bad. Im a top 200 Brit player, and I cant get games because everyone up there is playing USF.
So I play Osteer, and after a few days of games i found out
1
turzdorf is unplayable as Osteer2:You cant beat a top USF player in 1v1 auto
3:Rifle company and heavy calvary are broken
Whatever relic developer gavesmoke grenades to riflemen and then added a cheap smoke barrage to a p2p meta commander hates Osteer
3 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#20
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
No, I'm referring to the pile of steaming poo that was rifle vet bonuses in comparison to any other infantry squad in game and conscript lack of scaling due to lack of any stock weapon upgrades and doctrinal upgrades performing extremely poorly.
Nobody said that the riflemen didn't need the buff they received. That was quite clear. The problem is that now, basic axis infantry is the poo you mentioned...
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
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