Current state of ostheer.

Lets grind out some more discussions. How do you feel ostheer handles the current meta now. As if you already didn't know. I think ostheer folds like a house of cards when flanked, or just simply is so weak can't endure anything with allied vet being superior and armor being weak. Being so heavily reliant on support teams because their grenadiers and panzergrenadiers are so inferior veterancy wise. The light vehicle play is non existant where their light vehicles underperform heavily. T3 units are very mediocre, with the stug being the exception. And ostheer t4 for the most part is fine except for brummbar being underpowered.

Is there anything about them that you can consider OP? There sure is a lot of things that are UP.

Proposed changes:

T2.
Buffing pgrens mid range accuracy to increase dps slightly. Bundle nade damage from 80 to 100

222 armor to slightly lower than m5 armor of 24 frontal armor. Aoe from 0.5 to 1.5. Damage from 20 to 25. Cost from 230mp 20 fuel to 320 mp 45 fuel. By increasing the cost this gives m20s and m3s slightly longer window. Still unaffected by its counters and other light vehicles. Simply is an actual threat to infantry and isn't made of tissues and isn't stupidly cheap. Model also needs to be scaled down. ( but we know that will never happen)

FHT: When upgraded armor is increased to 20 from 9.

Panzer4 penetration to 130 from 110

Ostwind damage from 40 to 50.

T4.

Brummbar scatter tightened. Bunker busting barrage now vet 0. Now costs 145 fuel.

Call in units.

Stormtroopers: Gren Kar98s replaced with ober kar98s. Stg upgrade lowered to 60 munitions from 100. Veterancy buffed to mirror panzergrenadiers.(as its currently worse). This change turns stormtroops into ostheers best infantry squad like they should be.

Assault grenadiers. Base received accuracy to .91. Panzergrenadier model gets an stg44. 2nd stg44 replaces mp40 at vet 3. Cost to flat 300 mp. CP0 to CP1

Pak43 gets cruciform mount and costs 45 fuel, no shooting through walls (I can dream can't I)

g43s can now be used with lmg42s again CP3 to CP5.

Bugs:
Incendiary shot for ost sniper and TWP should share with base reload, not able to fire immediately after shooting.

Ost is the worst faction according to CoH2 Charts. I believe it's because of some of the reasons you mentioned. Pgrens certainly need more damage mid range. I think the MGs need to be a little more durable as well.

A lot of the problems would be fixed if T4 was more accessible. It costs a whopping 360mp and 120 fuel!! to get the T4 building up (if you include teching). The cost for the T4 building needs a serious price reduction. Brumbar needs better scatter as you mentioned.

If T4 was more accessible, OST would be a much better faction even with their crappy grens.

Another idea might be switch the rocket HT with the PIV. That way, T3 has AT, AI, arty and T4 has upgraded AI, AT, and a generalist.

Ost is the worst faction according to CoH2 Charts. I believe it's because of some of the reasons you mentioned. Pgrens certainly need more damage mid range. I think the MGs need to be a little more durable as well.

A lot of the problems would be fixed if T4 was more accessible. It costs a whopping 360mp and 120 fuel!! to get the T4 building up (if you include teching). The cost for the T4 building needs a serious price reduction. Brumbar needs better scatter as you mentioned.

If T4 was more accessible, OST would be a much better faction even with their crappy grens.

Another idea might be switch the rocket HT with the PIV. That way, T3 has AT, AI, arty and T4 has upgraded AI, AT, and a generalist.

I am against t4 being cheaper as everyone would just go t4, and also because it doesn't fix units that should be performing atleast well or better in different areas. Making t4 cheaper doesn't fix UP units. T4 is very powerful with pwerfer and panther. Its seems to expensive because ostheers early mid game line up struggles very hard to hold out till then.

the buff to the rifleman vet 3 needs to scale back, as well as the vet 2 bonus on the tommies.

Right now the grenadier feels like roadbump once the western allied infantry start rolling in.

t3 and t4 building should be about 30 fuels cheaper.

Pgren current mid range dps is fine (same as falls).
222 armor buff is too big, it will make quad completely useless. Autocannon AOE buff is not what it needs, the main issue is accuracy.
251 should have more armor even without flamers.
Storm buff is massive, they should cost much more than 340 MP if they're going to do that.

Agree on everything else.

Pgren current mid range dps is fine (same as falls).
222 armor buff is too big, it will make quad completely useless. Autocannon AOE buff is not what it needs, the main issue is accuracy.
251 should have more armor even without flamers.
Storm buff is massive, they should cost much more than 340 MP if they're going to do that.

Agree on everything else.

Fair enough. Can you explain what about the stormtrooper buff is too much of.

Ost needs an inf squad that can stand up to enemy fire, in cover. p-gren should have reduced size, or always come in 250halftrack.

Like assgren changes, but give self heal or permanent out of combat speed increase at vet 3 instead of second stg?

I think one of the biggest changes possible would be to give frontline infantry the ability to upgrade from 4 to 5 units and bring them in line with every other faction.

Since Brit release, brit fanboys have been complaining about how expensive it is to reinforce their squads - but Ostheer are STILL at 30mp per gren but have no opportunity to increase squad sizes. So now Infantry sections outperform grens on many levels and reinforce cheaper, maybe Osther should benefit from this as well?

I would propose a fuel gated squad size increase in the T2 building similar in cost to the Brit version, increasing infantry (but not weapon teams) to 5 men. This should allow Ostheer infantry to be more survivable as a squad and scale better into the late game.

I think a nice feature would be to include an unlockable rally point at the command bunker. As it stands, most other factions (except Soviets) have a forward retreat point. The resource cost should be somewhat costly, and would make protecting your investment in a command bunker a priority.

i don't think stock OKH has any issues other the the 222 being meh.

Make g43s add 1 man.Otherwise no one uses it.
Will have to check ostwind vs new centaur for comparison.
Pzgrens agree.
Not sure on 222.
Brummbarr is obvious.
Pak 43 can't get cruciform mount while it can shoot through obstacles,that would be broken.
Panzer 4 penetration DEFINTELY needs to be buffed.
T4 price adjustment

buff axis nerf allies!!!!!!!!!!

The problem I have with OH is how I'm forced to get an AT gun in the first 5 min or I'm screwed.

The problem I have with OH is how I'm forced to get an AT gun in the first 5 min or I'm screwed.

Yea, one of the reasons why I find Ostheer really un fun is because the entire game it feels like you are just preparing for or reacting to what the allies are making.

PG: they need to spread out vet2 buff on vet1. As many other units, they need a better vet1 ability.

G43: they don't need to be locked down behind CP3.

222 buff would be nice

PG buff would be nice

Changes to Ostwind seem unneeded to me, is that unit really underperforming?

Flame HT needs vet that actually helps it in some way. Armor increase is quite high, it coming out so early and being so durable would mean tommies would get roasted on retreat with that. Reducing cost of upgrade might be ok.

Brumbar's problem is cost, it is already deadly against everything without tracks. It could use a little more armor on the front, wouldn't reducing scatter mean it would fire with attack ground like a laser?

222 buff would be nice

PG buff would be nice

Changes to Ostwind seem unneeded to me, is that unit really underperforming?

Flame HT needs vet that actually helps it in some way. Armor increase is quite high, it coming out so early and being so durable would mean tommies would get roasted on retreat with that. Reducing cost of upgrade might be ok.

Brumbar's problem is cost, it is already deadly against everything without tracks. It could use a little more armor on the front, wouldn't reducing scatter mean it would fire with attack ground like a laser?

I dont know the fact that ostwind has to circle strafe AT guns like 4 times gets kind of infuriating. It takes several bursts to get squads to retreat. A slight damage increase fixes that.

Good point on the FHT. Do 6 pounders not seem good enough? Dot was just nerfed hard by about 60% so I doubt its an issue because the FHT is really weak to small arms.

Brummbar already has pretty high armor of 260. Everytime ive used the brummbar I have bad luck ever hitting more than 2 models. Same could be said about the 105 sherman. Due to the low shell velocity.

Brummbar screws you out of any respectable mobile AT, brummbar has the worst pathing in the game. MHT flame ability is stupid. It misses on purpose. 4.5/5 shots the flame will be 90% outside of the circle.

Bear in mind with the introduction of the Brits and the recent changes to Allied inf vet we've witnessed a further powercreep, making the Ostheer core units look increasingly underwhelming.
I think many of the above suggestions are actually quite feasible in principle. On the other hand, Osttruppen are actually OP now and need to be toned down somewhat.

Brummbär frontal armour is fine, problem is the tech structure itself plus its wildly inconsistant damage output.

Ostheer units that are obsolete:
Gren - 30 mp? why is tommy cheaper and rifle 28 mp even after the vet 3 buff? Give them 5 men, or cover bonus like tommy, or buff LMG42, and Rifle nade is useless right now.

222 - Tissue armor, I can blob this thing to death without significant casualties. Buff armor or DPS, with cost adjustment.

PG - Good after reinforcement reduction, but still they are a bit too weak. Especially when now US has Rangers, UK has Commandos.

251 - Flamer still too expensive.

Ostwind - A Joke.

Panzer IV - Should get more penetration/range with vet to scale into late game.

T4 - too expensive.
Brummbar - Useless.

Panther - could use a slight buff given how many counters there are, especially Panther can't kill infantry

Give the Wehrmacht one single shock unit at any stage of the game, please.