Volks are in desperate need of a buff vs rifles and scripts.
Volks are fine vs them in early game and for mid/late game, there is a reason why OKW have 5 types of AI infantry.
Ostheer t4 and late game infantry
12 Oct 2015, 07:37 AM
#21
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Volks are fine vs them in early game and for mid/late game, there is a reason why OKW have 5 types of AI infantry.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Oct 2015, 07:54 AM
#22
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
LMG Grens are so weak, they don't seem to scratch vet 3 allie infantry anymore. I don't even bother to rebuild them when I lose squads. Right now it feels like the only way you can actually kill models is with snipers/tank/mortar/mines. Grens definitely need some lategame potency.
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Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
12 Oct 2015, 08:05 AM
#23
Posts: 301
I like the idea of buffing OST infantery in the lategame. The 5th man bothers me a little bit. on the gren, i would rather put the -23% recieved accuracy from vet3 to vet2 and put an additional dammage buff in the vet3 line. Or an upgrade for PG that give them the armor of a shock.
Just throwing ideas...
Just throwing ideas...
...For conflict is the great teacher,
and pain... the perfect educator...
and pain... the perfect educator...
12 Oct 2015, 09:37 AM
#24
Posts: 476
lmao are you biased or what? Vet 2 and vet 3 LMG grens still rekt everything with LMG and riflenades, and you dont need to even research anything. You get LMG, faust and grenade for free. Ostheer is still the best faction 1v1, vetted MG42s, Grens, paks and mortars rekt stuff you know.
Panzergrenadiers still have their uses. Dont use them like shock troops. Just stick them to green cover and let enemy assault you, they make the most damage that way.
Panzergrenadiers still have their uses. Dont use them like shock troops. Just stick them to green cover and let enemy assault you, they make the most damage that way.
12 Oct 2015, 13:44 PM
#25
Posts: 1484
I think Wehrmacht is fine, especially when Vet 3 Grens with LMGs come into play. Yes, you have commandos and shocks late game but you can deal with these with MGs and running them over with tanks.
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12 Oct 2015, 13:48 PM
#26
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
I think Wehrmacht is fine, especially when Vet 3 Grens with LMGs come into play. Yes, you have commandos and shocks late game but you can deal with these with MGs and running them over with tanks.
This is not a debate wether if there are or not solutions against allied infantry. There are solutions and counterplay for everything in this game, the question is if they are balanced compared to what they need to counter.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
12 Oct 2015, 13:49 PM
#27
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
Volks are fine vs them in early game and for mid/late game, there is a reason why OKW have 5 types of AI infantry.
The only place were volks are fine these days is your imagination. From that point of view, they cannot complain at all, because that is a verry large place.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
12 Oct 2015, 13:50 PM
#28
Posts: 323
The 5 man squad seems to much, just make the received accuracy at vet 3 a bit more, so they can survive to small arms fire better
12 Oct 2015, 13:54 PM
#29
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The only place were volks are fine these days is your imagination. From that point of view, they cannot complain at all, because that is a verry large place.
From my point of view, if you were half as good in-game warrior as you are forum warrior, you wouldn't be visiting balance forum so often to shed salty, salty tears and you'd have ~300 rank instead of current international call phone number as rank(see? I have made an actual assumption that you actually do play the game even though we all know you don't!).
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
12 Oct 2015, 14:04 PM
#30
Posts: 1484
the question is if they are balanced compared to what they need to counter.
Umm yea? Late game Grens can handle Riflemen, IS and Cons pretty well. In some engagements, Grens can even pick off 2-3 models off Shocks and Commandos. Allied over all have more infantry choices and scaling, and Axis has armor.
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12 Oct 2015, 14:51 PM
#31
Posts: 503
Give allies a T4 supply yard type upgrade for less manpower bleed and then give Gren's option for 5th man locked in T4 also. Seems like no high level players are getting T4 in 1v1
12 Oct 2015, 16:02 PM
#32
Posts: 738
Can't help feeling you are being a little biased as pgrens certainly are not fine and do not keep up with baseline allied inf. Its generally accepted that pgrens are regarded as OK at best to bad.
I disagree, for what you get for the 360mp and reinforce cost Pgrens are just more useful than obers or sturms. Grens too at all stages of the game compared to volks. (talking in a 1vs1 sense here).
They trade fairly well medium range unlike shocks or sturms and if you catch a squad close range can still pick up wipes. You mention vet but apart from vet 1 their vet is pretty damn good, get vet three on a Pgren squad and there's not a whole lot of units that can stand up.
12 Oct 2015, 17:15 PM
#33
Posts: 482
Umm yea? Late game Grens can handle Riflemen, IS and Cons pretty well.
Seriously?
The 5 men Infantry sections and Riflemen both can get dual LMGs/BARs.While the 4 men Grenedier can get only one LMG upgrade. Not to mention 1 gren model cost 30MP which is the most expensive. Also the receive accuracy is worse than infantry sections and Riflemen.
So how the Grens handle Riflemen or IS? We must not be playing the same game. Grenediers always suffer from heavier casualties in late game compared to other basic infantry. And Grens always lose to late game IS or Riflemen.
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12 Oct 2015, 18:26 PM
#34
Posts: 1484
Seriously?
The 5 men Infantry sections and Riflemen both can get dual LMGs/BARs.While the 4 men Grenedier can get only one LMG upgrade. Not to mention 1 gren model cost 30MP which is the most expensive. Also the receive accuracy is worse than infantry sections and Riflemen.
So how the Grens handle Riflemen or IS? We must not be playing the same game. Grenediers always suffer from heavier casualties in late game compared to other basic infantry. And Grens always lose to late game IS or Riflemen.
Double bars is a double edge sword here, losing this squad will push you back. Grens have amazing grenades and they do fairly well at long ranges with MG-42s. If you are comparing blobs, I suggest using combined arms such as MG, Gren and Mortar combo.
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13 Oct 2015, 00:08 AM
#35
Posts: 166
So buff Sov and Ost infantry? Even against USF I see Ost Infantry standing their ground quite well once upgraded.
13 Oct 2015, 00:53 AM
#36
Posts: 647
i agree, grens need some form of help, a very slight received accuracy at vet 3 to buff their effective hp to ~500 ish will be sufficient, as they still have dps and amazing nades at their disposal and with dps, they can reach vet 3 relatively easy.
though, its generic conscripts who truly suffer from misrepresentation, vet 3 gives them an amazing hp bonus, but only in vet3. most generic conscripts rarely reach vet 3 due to the lack of dps. spread their received accuracy and weapon accuracy over vet 1 and 2 to scale them effectively.
though, its generic conscripts who truly suffer from misrepresentation, vet 3 gives them an amazing hp bonus, but only in vet3. most generic conscripts rarely reach vet 3 due to the lack of dps. spread their received accuracy and weapon accuracy over vet 1 and 2 to scale them effectively.
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