Those stupid leiG spam

Don't everybody want combined arms?

Combined arms? Like those which ISG spam ruins hardcore?

I am so mad after playing against this pudding on certain maps, this BS is ridiculous. It neglects infantry play. It neglects team weapons. It single-handedly without any impact of the player counters everything non-fuel based. And if you are not playing against total noobs, their isgs would be protected by mines/rakkettens, so yeah, tanks are useless as well.

Only counters remain is katy, scott and some off-maps (20 minute fuel units to counter 5 minute non fuel unit, such balance, much relic). Hail to comp-stop style camping and arty fest, micro and multitasking is for losers anyway.

If i never ever see isgs in my games again it would be too soon.

Combined arms? Like those which ISG spam ruins hardcore?

I am so mad after playing against this pudding on certain maps, this BS is ridiculous. It neglects infantry play. It neglects team weapons. It single-handedly without any impact of the player counters everything non-fuel based. And if you are not playing against total noobs, their isgs would be protected by mines/rakkettens, so yeah, tanks are useless as well.

Only counters remain is katy, scott and some off-maps (20 minute fuel units to counter 5 minute non fuel unit, such balance, much relic). Hail to comp-stop style camping and arty fest, micro and multitasking is for losers anyway.

If i never ever see isgs in my games again it would be too soon.

At the beginning, people wanted it because OKW had nothing to suppress and counter blob.

At the beginning, people wanted it because OKW had nothing to suppress and counter blob.

the ISG and Packhowizter are getting overbuffed.

Pack howitzer doesn't need the suppression. The USF already have the .50cal and the m15 AAHT for suppression. They don't need the pack howitzer to suppress as well.

The problem with the ISG is its range. Its long range make it easy for multiple isg to establish overlapping field of fire.

Combined arms? Like those which ISG spam ruins hardcore?

I am so mad after playing against this pudding on certain maps, this BS is ridiculous. It neglects infantry play. It neglects team weapons. It single-handedly without any impact of the player counters everything non-fuel based. And if you are not playing against total noobs, their isgs would be protected by mines/rakkettens, so yeah, tanks are useless as well.

Only counters remain is katy, scott and some off-maps (20 minute fuel units to counter 5 minute non fuel unit, such balance, much relic). Hail to comp-stop style camping and arty fest, micro and multitasking is for losers anyway.

If i never ever see isgs in my games again it would be too soon.

Well I am sorry that you got mad playing against ISG, but I suggest trying play as axis against partisan shit especially in 2v2s and tell me how refreshing that was. The shortest game in my "career" - my team was pushed off the map in at most 7-8 minutes and it was gg. I sincerely doubt that the hotfix changed things by alot.
There are several broken units in COH2 atm, among them ISG as well if you wish, but the big majority of them is in the ALLIED side not AXIS, note that.

Combined arms? Like those which ISG spam ruins hardcore?

I am so mad after playing against this pudding on certain maps, this BS is ridiculous. It neglects infantry play. It neglects team weapons. It single-handedly without any impact of the player counters everything non-fuel based. And if you are not playing against total noobs, their isgs would be protected by mines/rakkettens, so yeah, tanks are useless as well.

Only counters remain is katy, scott and some off-maps (20 minute fuel units to counter 5 minute non fuel unit, such balance, much relic). Hail to comp-stop style camping and arty fest, micro and multitasking is for losers anyway.

If i never ever see isgs in my games again it would be too soon.

+100%

The problem, too often is relics tunnel vision. They try and solve a problem ( ie adding suppression to reduce blobbing ) yet they don't take into consideration the knock on effect to other aspects of the game.

Its one of those relic decisions that you just want to scream WTF were you thinking!!!!

If Relic miraculously ever balanced the game they would put themselves out of work with no job. People still don't get it. It's not meant to ever be balanced.

thinking out of the box!

the ISG and Packhowizter are getting overbuffed.

Pack howitzer doesn't need the suppression. The USF already have the .50cal and the m15 AAHT for suppression. They don't need the pack howitzer to suppress as well.

The problem with the ISG is its range. Its long range make it easy for multiple isg to establish overlapping field of fire.

Pak and ISG need the suppression to counter blob. Otherwise pack and ISG are useless because you can run on and the unit has no way to escape. Or you give them a retreat button.

People are focusing on the suppression when the suppression isn't the problem, the problem is the killing, sniping from far away.
The pak is in the good spot because of it is high cost high value unit requiring some micro and it has a reduced cone of fire. It also doesn't have a shield protection and can be easily depop.
The ISG has a huge range, combined with the different OKW truck make it unattainable before your T3-T4 which is completely silly. It also doesn't have any cone of fire, it simply fire a 360 degrees and have a good shield protection.
Now its price for a faction floating in MP combined with the above make people spaming it because it simply wort it.

Increasing their scatter will simply make them useless, you have to consider them as MGs, they shoot, they suppress but they shouldn't kill so fast. Since they don't have a retreat button, they need some distance but far less than 100.

ISG: add a cone of fire, reduce the far distance to 60-70, reduce the damage per shot, remove the pin
Pak: reduce the damage per shot, remove the pin

So having one will still be useful for two factions lacking of blob control but you'll need more micro to use them, actually a lot more to use the ISG which is today one of the reason it is spamable => no need to micro it.

changes need to be reverted for both units. isg needs vet 1 smoke.
100th time I tell this.

ISG is overperforming, even in 1v1s with only like 2 of them. Higher the shatter just a bit, lower the damage (no more oneshots pls!),the range and remove the instapin from both the ISG and the Pack Howie. But on the other hand : What else is in the OKWs repertoire? Lousy early-mid infantry that cant go toe-on-toe with its counterparts and a huge penalty on Resourceincome. I actually saw a FSJ squad getting smoked up by a british RE squad on mid to shortrange ... And Obers are arriving quite too late to have a big impact on the general outcome of a game (all 1v1 impressions as Im not a frequent 2v2+ player).

Imho the real problem with the ISG is that the OKW got neither nondoctrinal HMGs (Areadenial, Pins, Supressions) nor Mortars (Manpowersource of Indirect Fire) at their disposal and Relic is desperately trying to fix the gameplay somehow around that OKW-"Feature".

multipost, sry for that

It's interesting how the outcry against the slow-firing Soviet mortar caused Relic to buff the Ost sniper to having tungsten carbide underwear, but everyone seems perfectly fine with having the LeIG snipe UKF snipers at long range.

The old LeIG underperformed a little, but it didn't need this amount of a buff. If it was less accurate it wouldn't be as bad, but it seems to have laser-like accuracy at all ranges.

I haven't played against the pack howie will say that it works about as well as the LeIG when I use those.

ISG and Packhowizter are broken now. Even 120 spam was not so hard, becouse he can miss and dont supress. Its nightmare for game now.

I am putting everyone in this thread who is saying that ISG is not overpowered and that OKW need its performance on a list.

Every time any one of these persons complains about allied units overperforming in the future I will requote their posts from this thread, replacing "LeIG" with <<allied unit they are complaining about>>.

Maybe this will teach them the elements of logic.

Gun was close to over performing, or was arguably over performing before. Current buffs make it just that much better.

As a reminder to everyone saying "Look at the Pak Howie", Pak Howie comes much later. The ISG, can on some maps, be your 3rd built unit and it is designed this way so that you can start to punish weapon team spam. It is also in a faction with MP float, which the US rarely if ever has. On top of that it is in a faction with cheap and plentiful AT so there is limited chance to hit the guns early with light vehicles. AND, wait there's more, it comes in a faction with FHQ which heals and reinforces so the gun is nigh impossible to kill by ranged units, which always have a shorter range and must come under its fire to attempt to hit it. Even when decrewed, volks can rapidly recrew for cheap. Its range allows it to shell so far back that even if you do decrew it you will never be able to limp the gun back to your lines before your enemy catches up and kills the capturing infantry, if you even have a squad with more than 3 men when you manage to finish off the crew.

Med to ISG is no brainer right now, and that speaks to how much this unit is over performing.

Increase MP 100+

I am putting everyone in this thread who is saying that ISG is not overpowered and that OKW need its performance on a list.

Every time any one of these persons complains about allied units overperforming in the future I will requote their posts from this thread, replacing "LeIG" with <<allied unit they are complaining about>>.

Maybe this will teach them the elements of logic.

This kind of attitude is so cancerous. You know this isn't some sort of race to see who's the biggest grudge holder right? It makes you look like a child when you can't let go what people have said on a video game forum.

At the end of the day even if people disagree with you, you shouldn't hold it against them.

C'mon Alex, you're making me out to be some sort of a supervillain just because I proposed to use turnabout as fair play.

If people dismiss "unit is simply too effective for role/cost" as an argument, which I've seen multiple times in this thread, then they waive the right to use that identical argument in the future. This sounds perfectly natural to me. I do not see this enormous injustice in holding people accountable for the things they say. It's not like I'll send them parrot heads in the mail or make threatening phone calls.

Selective memory and obvious faction bias is the real problem on these forums, but no, I am a grudge holder and a cancer on the community because I want to hold people accountable in a humorous, non-threatening manner?

Well I am sorry that you got mad playing against ISG, but I suggest trying play as axis against partisan shit especially in 2v2s and tell me how refreshing that was. The shortest game in my "career" - my team was pushed off the map in at most 7-8 minutes and it was gg. I sincerely doubt that the hotfix changed things by alot.
There are several broken units in COH2 atm, among them ISG as well if you wish, but the big majority of them is in the ALLIED side not AXIS, note that.

An overpowered unit is an overpowered unit. Taking sides based on faction like its some kind of political rivalry is retarded. Pointing fingers at allied players as if they had any hand in relics balance decisions is even more retarded.

I have no problem saying allied units like partisans were doing too much dps, or that the bofors accuracy was too good. It's common sense shit, I don't want to win just because X unit I make is overpowered, or because people whined and got my enemies units nerfed to uselessness. You and a lot of others don't seem to have that compunction though.

Just faced 3-5 leigs on road to kharkov, supported by 2 med trucks and covered by 2 schwerers

Until late late.. game off maps, there was no way to counter them (than arty of USF and Brits ) and around 10-12CPs when we got some abilities, bleed was just too big and the game was over.

Those guns are insane.

Do not nerf them at all unless you give OKW ways to fill the roles that the guns are currently filling.
They are currently an MG mortar combo.

MG34 needs to be nondoctrinal.
Remove suppression from ISG.
There, done.