LeIG is too effective

Yea, crewmen.

This is exactly what makes price or is most important thing about the indirect weapon.

Not reload, not scatter, not range, not scaling.

Crewmen.

Well considering the angle scatter is exactly the same and only the distance scatter is slightly different I would say that yes having an extra crew member helps since it allows you to survive counter battery fire easier. Like the ISG isn't hard to kill because of the grouping of the crew around the gun shield. But a large part of the attraction of the 120 is how survivable it is to enemy indirect.

No, they don't operate in the same range, only one of them have 100 range on default fire the one that will be going for the most part, can you guess which one? I will give you a hint: It was made in germany.

But the direct fire aspect of support guns in this game basically forces both to operate within 75 range. Honestly I wouldn't care if it's range got cut to 75 at all.

Pack Howitzer

vet1 Unlocks white phosphorus barrage
vet2 switches to pack_howitzer_75mm_barrage_heat_mp (only improves barrage)
vet3 +33% range -30% ability recharge

Leig18 ISG

vet1 Unlocks Hollow charge ability
vet2 +25% speed -23% received accuracy
vet3 -40% ability recharge +33% range
vet4 Doubles shots per salvo
vet5 +30% penetration +50% damage

The person who said pack howi has better vet is an idiot and you following it, well, we all know you.

Can I have garbage ISG vet on pack howi?
I will give you awesome pack howi bonuses instead.

Yes those abilities on the ISG are literal trash, you honestly think Hollow Charges which do nothing but increase pen are better than White Phos that burns off infantry health, slows them, and disables tanks main guns is worse?

And the things that affect the barrage are insanely bad because who gives a shit if you recharge faster when the recharge on the barrage is almost instant and the barrage isn't actually useful for hitting/killing regardless.

The only thing that makes the ISG better at what it's supposed to do is the Vet 5 bonus, and good fucking luck getting there.

Wow, I daresay the leig might be the best mobile indirect fire, that costs no fuel, in the game after the upcomming ost mortar nerf.

Alex is seriously trying to argue that pack howi have better vet then ISG?

I mean, I can understand that axis fanboys on official forums are ideologically motivated and will literally fight for their holy cause to the death, but come on, you have stats in your lying fact and you still are in denial?

ISG is a sniper

I can understand that axis fanboys on official forums are ideologically motivated

Katiof you really are just a pleb

Alex is seriously trying to argue that pack howi have better vet then ISG?

I mean, I can understand that axis fanboys on official forums are ideologically motivated and will literally fight for their holy cause to the death, but come on, you have stats in your lying fact and you still are in denial?

None of the things you posted affect the autofire (the good part of the ISG) except the vet 5 bonus, so they might as well not exist. If you are going to argue stats at least understand how and what they affect.

None of the things you posted affect the autofire (the good part of the ISG) except the vet 5 bonus, so they might as well not exist. If you are going to argue stats at least understand how and what they affect.

if you are going to argue stats at least take everything into account.


Can we just ignore this kid? honestly.... LieG is better than pak howie at vet 0 all the way to 5. The level of denial it takes to say otherwise takes an amount of reality detachment that is a waste of time in discussing with.

if you are going to argue stats at least take everything into account.


Can we just ignore this kid? honestly.... LieG is better than pak howie at vet 0 all the way to 5. The level of denial it takes to say otherwise takes an amount of reality detachment that is a waste of time in discussing with.

Yes, taking everything it account such the the Pack Howi having a larger kill and suppression radius on it's explosion profile. The LieG and Pack are equals, interestingly enough it's almost as if this is intended because they cost almost exactly the same.

None of the things you posted affect the autofire (the good part of the ISG) except the vet 5 bonus [...]

Excuse me but:

Leig18 ISG

vet1 Unlocks Hollow charge ability
vet2 +25% speed -23% received accuracy
vet3 -40% ability recharge +33% range
vet4 Doubles shots per salvo
vet5 +30% penetration +50% damage

Vet 3 gives you range, Vet 4 - you shoot 2 shells instead of 1, Vet 5 gives you damage and penetration.

if you are going to argue stats at least take everything into account.


Can we just ignore this kid? honestly.... LieG is better than pak howie at vet 0 all the way to 5. The level of denial it takes to say otherwise takes an amount of reality detachment that is a waste of time in discussing with.

Aaaaaaaannnnndddddddd...... That's a lie

They have slightly different stats that work out in the same way if used properly. Yes, dual Pack Howis are more difficult to get while maintaining map presence, that doesn't mean it's impossible. And once you do get them, the Axis infantry is in for a world of hurt.

And White Phosphorous is so much better than Hollow Charge it isn't even funny.

The two units have almost identical veterancies up until ISG vet 5. Good luck getting it there because of how fragile the unit is to any sort of counterfire be it direct or indirect.

Excuse me but:



Vet 3 gives you range, Vet 4 - you shoot 2 shells instead of 1, Vet 5 gives you damage and penetration.

Nope. Vet 3 only affects barrage range. Vet 4 makes you fire double the shells per barrage.

Nope. Vet 3 only affects barrage range. Vet 4 makes you fire double the shells per barrage.

Are you sure about that?

Maybe they both have crappy vet?

This shouldn't be about Pack Howie versus LeIG.

This should be about the LeIG. If you have problems with pack howie, then make a thread about it. Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Q: Is the LeIG over performing?
A: Yes. Very. Against ALL factions.

Maybe they both have crappy vet?

I'm not gonna step into this fight, but I would prefer WP barrage anytime, anywhere.

Are you sure about that?

As someone who spends time with the modding tools, I can confirm that Vet 3 only works with Barrage and Hollow Barrage and not the base unit itself. The vet 4 bonus also only applies to Barrage/Hollow Barrage.

This shouldn't be about Pack Howie versus LeIG.

This should be about the LeIG. If you have problems with pack howie, then make a thread about it. Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Q: Is the LeIG over performing?
A: Yes. Very. Against ALL factions.

Yes about pack howie discussion, no about leig

It's over performing vs Brits because it's an assault gun for a faction that's used to facing giant blobs of 5-6 men squads. Now, after being buffed due to poor performance, it's facing much more expensive 4 man squads,

This is a big problem in balancing explosives vs squad size. Larger squads are always superior to indirect fire and other forms of explosives due to less chance of being insta wiped. Combined with their expensive reinforce cost, the leig has grounds to be nerfed against the Brits using relics new target tables.

It still needs a vet rework regardless, it's vet is absolutely terrible as it treats the leig as a mortar when it's an assault gun. White phosphorous rounds are better than the all levels of vet the leig has. A vet 5 okw unit should be a force of reckoning, while a vet 5 leig acts only minorly better.

IMO best solution is nerf vet 0, buff/rework vet/abilities to treat it like the assault gun it is, and use target tables to individually nerf it against Brits.

Also in my experience so far the leig is the only thing keeping the okw in the game vs brits. Should it be nerfed it feel the Brits would just walk all over the okw

Pack Howitzer Stats :

Normal Gun -Non Heat
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 80
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 85
Max Reload = 5.2
Min Reload = 4.6
Suppression stats:
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60


Pack Howitzer with Heat :
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 160
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 300
Max Reload = 4.2
Min Reload = 3.4
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60






Leig Normal Gun :
Aoe Radius = 3
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 75 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 7.1
Min Reload = 6.5
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60

Using the Hollow Charge Ability :
Aoe Radius = 4
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100 (Vet 3 increases this by 33%)
Penetration = 200 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 3.6
Min Reload = 2.3
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0
Nearby Suppression = 0
Suppression Radius = 0

Pack Howitzer Stats :

Normal Gun -Non Heat
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 80
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 85
Max Reload = 5.2
Min Reload = 4.6
Suppression stats:
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60


Pack Howitzer with Heat :
Aoe Radius = 6
Damage = 160
Max Range = 80
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 300
Max Reload = 4.2
Min Reload = 3.4
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60






Leig Normal Gun :
Aoe Radius = 3
Damage = 80
Max Range = 100
Min Range = 40
Penetration = 75
Max Reload = 7.1
Min Reload = 6.5
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0.8
Nearby Suppression = 2.2
Nearby Suppression Radius = 60

Using the Hollow Charge Ability :
Aoe Radius = 4
Damage = 80 (Increased by 50% at Vet 5)
Max Range = 100 (Vet 3 increases this by 33%)
Penetration = 200 (Increased by 30% at Vet 5)
Max Reload = 3.6
Min Reload = 2.3
Suppression Stats -
Amount = 0
Nearby Suppression = 0
Suppression Radius = 0

The stats on the hollow rounds combined with its vet 5 are fantastic, it just sucks it's limited to a barrage over an awkward area. It would be much better to turn it into an active that switched to hollowed rounds that it auto fired, considering how much more accurate it is over a barrage,

As someone who spends time with the modding tools, I can confirm that Vet 3 only works with Barrage and Hollow Barrage and not the base unit itself. The vet 4 bonus also only applies to Barrage/Hollow Barrage.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.