Balance Preview Update 09/08/2015

Ehh people, do you have reading comprehension problems?

Relic buffs GUN RANGE and reduces SIGHT RANGE. It means tiger will still have 55 range at vet2, but will need spotter to use it.

I don't think 55 range tiger is a good idea though, especially TA.

it does not need a spotter agains tank destroyers because if they hit him they will be revealed in fog of war for few seconds and iger will return fire.


On paper it looks like nerf but in really it doesnt change nothing betweek jacson and tiger and that is uggest issue and many players are pointing on it.

Are all of you guys simply delusional ? Since when should 'cheap' tank destroyer be a hard counter to ultra expensive hi-end-game unit ? Especially all or nothing unit as OKW's KT ? Jacksons and SU's pretty much eat through everything to a Panther. They simply wreck any light vehicle, they hard counter any medium tank with ease and you'd expect them to lock out the Tigers completely as well ? Which in fact - they pretty much do, and no 5 additional range would change that. It can only be additional reward for actually managing to ambush, or flank the TD's with slumbering ultra-slow Heavy tank for possibility of that one additional shot, which in my experience usually KT's don't get to take. What about potent Allied heavy mediums ? Like they don't exist, any one of them (E8, T34/85 and now even Comet) wins against Tiger 1vs1, and your babbling about soloing the whole frontlines with one Tiger

afterall, look at the ingame description of the KT, weak against "MASSED" AT units, and after the armor nerf, even that's a fantasy.

I dare any of you biasoz, to try and play with sedated KT, against the double Jackson player with half a brain, then come back to report.

Support him with at gun ? or with tank destroyer ?


Oh wait why im saying this to someone who wont even play this great game (whitch is getting in good directions only sometimes it sway ?)

And honestly, the t-34 was not really a good tank in 1941/ Why do i say this? Very unreliable. T-34s in 1941 had massive reliability problems, had lack of proper trained crews, and a huge lack of spare parts. Yes, of course the design was evolutionary, but that doesn't change the fact that the t-34 didint do much in 1941.

Germany seems to have gotten lucky with their early invasions. Superior French tanks were avoidable due to bad tactics, and superior Soviet tanks were avoidable due to mechanical problems and bad crews.

Also about the PIV the PIV didin't get "double armor". It got a hull upgrade from 50mm to 80mm, while the turret remained 50mm.

Thanks for the correction, I misremembered the Ausf. F as having 40mm frontal.

Germany seems to have gotten lucky with their early invasions. Superior French tanks were avoidable due to bad tactics, and superior Soviet tanks were avoidable due to mechanical problems and bad crews.

Blitzkrieg's a ton of fun to read about knowing that.

lol @ everyone saying that Tiger will need a spotter.

A properly used Tiger has always units around it, and these units are always spotting for it. A vision nerf doesnt change anything!

Am i supposed to think "oh, thats balanced and fine this way" everytime i see a Tiger shooting @ me from 45 or 56 range because it has a spotter?

The Change wasnt necessary at all!

When will this patch be released. Anyone.

Sometime in the future. Truthfully, it's intended to be out before OCF starts.

Blitzkrieg's a ton of fun to read about knowing that.

By lucky, I meant lucky that their enemies had superior equipment but did not use it properly, thus doing very little damage with it.

lol @ everyone saying that Tiger will need a spotter.

A properly used Tiger has always units around it, and these units are always spotting for it. A vision nerf doesnt change anything!

Am i supposed to think "oh, thats balanced and fine this way" everytime i see a Tiger shooting @ me from 45 or 56 range because it has a spotter?

The Change wasnt necessary at all!

The change was necessary on the Tiger's because neither really had any impact versus simply being able to get a bunch of PIV's, and while this was nice to see less heavies the result of seeing almost no heavies wasn't very well intended. This now gives a dynamic were the Tiger I and Tiger II now have something that makes them unique.

It's a move in the right direction IMO, honestly this game suffers sometime from units being way to similar to each other and the resulting overlap causes "optimization syndrome" were if you have a collection of similar units people will only pick the best and none of the others will get used.

They removed the +10 range and replaced it with +5 for the Tiger I and the Tiger II's vet is still kinda dumb so there you go (and by dumb I mean having fuckdiculous vet requirements for a tank that comes really late in the game, on top of that the vet isn't even that good with spearhead making the main gun worse in every way).

By lucky, I meant lucky that their enemies had superior equipment but did not use it properly, thus doing very little damage with it.

Yep. The factors relating the defeat of France would probably lead to complaints of contrivance if it was a story someone made up.

When are they buffing my REs?

its better to give the stug 60 rage with some hp/armour/price adjustments then having a tiger with 45/56 range.

if you want to buff the tiger give it the same armour as the is2 since they cost the same (while is2 being better the the tiger)

as for the kt i would leave the range of 45 since it does not gain any range buff with vet; but i would rather have its old armour back (btw limit the kt to one at the time)

When are they buffing my REs?

Whenever they increase the price of them I guess.

By lucky, I meant lucky that their enemies had superior equipment but did not use it properly, thus doing very little damage with it.

Yup, armoured warfare was still a new thing. Everyone had different ideas on how best to use tanks, it just so happened that Germany military planners were closest to the correct method at the start of the war, and everyone else had to quickly catch up.

Yep. The factors relating the defeat of France would probably lead to complaints of contrivance if it was a story someone made up.

I don't think I'd complain at all

j/k

Btw it's nice that the British Medics are back. While probablly being a niche unit, they add flavor to the game in the form of unique voice acting, unit models and unit portraits.


Talking about flavor of the game...
German molotovs are kind of an immersion-killer

actually I like this suggestion. It would be weird if neither axis faction actually use the iconic potato masher as their regular nade. Assault nade kind of count but they are not that common.
(...)

Yup, either Volks or Grens definitley need that iconic, recognizable asset. As Grens are the more advanced one of the two, I guess they are better suited for the more advanced Riflegrenade also. So Potato Masher to Volks!

(...)
-Volkgren classic grenade should be given back, Flame grenades are really more suitable for Sturms...

(...)
I agree with other users that incendiary grenades should be on Sturmpioneers, not Volks.
(...)

One reason why I think indendiaries would be a lot better on Sturmpios is that on a cheap unit such as Volks, they immediately deliver that impression of molotovs, which is not very beneficial to the whole feel of the game as such equipment isn't really sth typically associated with the late-war army of germany. On Sturmpios, however, it would, IMO, leave the impression of a specialized ability that was given out to an aggressive elite unit (which is what Sturmpios represent).

The main gripe with the balance preview, however, remains the removal of the regular volks grenade. There is no non-doctrinal unit with this very iconic asset left in the game then. The 'Stielhandgrenade' should be more prominently represented in a WW II rts in my opinion. Volks were just the right unit for that. They wear standard issue uniforms. They look like units you'd expect to carry the potato masher, not some sort of Molotov.


(On a sidenote: Instead of such immersion-damaging experiments as replacing iconic regular grenades with seldom special incendiaries, why not give Conscripts regular grenades instead? I say, Molotovs suit the whole aggressive and suicidal theme of Penals way better. But that is another story and may stir up an argument on its own...)

I don't think I'd complain at all

j/k

That took me far too long to get.

Also Relic, while you're at it, could you change the vet 1 ability for a lot of Soviet vehicles? It's good on light vehicles like T-70s, but T-34s and IS-2s really don't need to capture territories. Give them something more useful, like an "Overdrive" ability, HEAT shells, or just a buff, like more sight or more range.

Also Relic, while you're at it, could you change the vet 1 ability for a lot of Soviet vehicles? It's good on light vehicles like T-70s, but T-34s and IS-2s really don't need to capture territories. Give them something more useful, like an "Overdrive" ability, HEAT shells, or just a buff, like more sight or more range.

I like the vet 1 ability, can't count how many games I saved by parking a t34 on a vp and putting it on capping mode, making sure the enemy infantry can't cap the vp and I win.

I like how you call out other people for being biased when you are quite clearly biased yourself.

I never pretended I wasn't. It's just that the Allied bias is flooding these boards it's insane.

One E8 beats a tiger.... Yea OK buddy.

If you manage to close in on it, it actually does, you can drive circles around it and play catch with it's turret and you'll win. In laboratory conditions of course. It's far worse with the KT even.

I never pretended I wasn't. It's just that the Allied bias is flooding these boards it's insane.



If you manage to close in on it, it actually does, you can drive circles around it and play catch with it's turret and you'll win. In laboratory conditions of course. It's far worse with the KT even.

By that logic a 222 will always beat an AVRE. But its never going to happen so its irrelevant.