Brace needs a serious nerf.

So it takes a long time to destroy during brace? What does that matter, you have all day as long as they don't shoot back, which they don't.

Mortar pits need better range.

Brace on all? Yeah, an ML20, LeFH or god forbid B-4 with brace. No thank you.


Ok it seems everyone is arguing that brace is bad because it totally negates artillery. And well you are correct, that is the entire point. And it is a good point at that. Without it all games would be an arty/call-in spamfest.

The get-go solution to any static emplacement is artillery, as anyone with half a brain has figured ou; but we all know from Sittard how funny that is.

So now we have a faction that in part relies on static emplacements, how do we prevent every single game from being played with CAS/Luftwaffles/LeFH/Stuka Zu-fuss spam? Well we make sure that artillery is not the end-all solution to these emplacements of course.

Ta-da Brace.

Brace ultimatley provides a much more varied playstyle and enables and rewards bigger use of combined arms from both sides.
For the British it is a matter of your emplacements being quite squishy so they wont stand up 100% on their own, so you need more than just emplacements. Inorder for them to take any considerable damage you must first disable them.

And for the opponent instead of just artying your way forward you have to put some thought into attacking and dislodging the brits. And it isn’t much thought or coordination needed TBH.

Step 1. Send arty/flame barrage.
Step 2. Once brace is up roll in close with your units and force the non-static British power off.
3. Deal with the now remaining static positions, should be easy you just forced their entire army off/killed their tanks and what not. They brace again immediately. No problem just keep shooting, it’s no more annoying than trying to kill a retreating squad.

How are those steps any different from sending in an art/flame strike to get rid of enemy infantry before advancing?
I’ll repeat it again. Brace is simply the “retreat button” for british emplacements. They need it because their emplacements are very much part of their core army. Unlike the flavor artillery units of OST/SOV or the mobile bases of the OKW

Why wouldn't it work with adding a cooldown? Well simply put. First the german sends arty barrage, Brace is activated so things aren't killed. Then as soon as brace is off any other barrage is sent in right after. So you would need a 4 click counter instead of a 2 click. If it has a 30 sec cooldown its ultimate purpose has already been lost.

Good post. I sense a little bit of I-haven't-figured-out-how-to-adapt-so-I'll-cry-op over the complaints. A Little bit.

Brace is strong and necessary, without it Britain can't head with mobile redeploying German hard-counters. Look t it like this, if the Soviets put a Mortar on the front lines behind sandbags and the German player sends a mortar after it the Soviet player can engage in a duel, which is equal since they're both roughly the same size or can redeploy.

A British mortar unit has no such option, so thus Brace exists. To be frank, Germany should find it frustrating to deal with a dug in British force, the Brits entire early game relies on it before their Armour comes in. Suggesting to nerf brace would be the equivalent of suggesting to nerf the USF's jack of all trades, the OKW's veterancy or the USSR's low manpower cost. By removing that gimmick you destroy the point of playing Britain which is to push up and castle. It forces the AXIS team to actually have to stay on the offensive. I know the AXIS have never really liked doing so but believe me if you stay aggressive the Brits wont have the time or MP to get to brace.

All the times I've won as Britain it's been because the AXIS players stuck to the same old strategy of pushing 50% up and building bunkers. Well guess what that Strategy is obsolete Britain doesn't give a toss about your bunkers and because of Brace your mortars won't allow you to hide behind MG42's and do jack shit. You have to be aggressive and believe me if you keep pushing the Manpower bleed Britain will suffer will force them to fall back, then resist the urge to dig in like you used to and keep pushing up. It's VERY hard to come back from that. If you try to dig in at 50% the British field defenses are designed to force you back, Brace is there to enable them, the British are the ARTILLERY FACTION, you shouldn't win arty duels with them and Relic designed them to resist arty duels.

/Rant

TL;DR: Brits are the arty faction and thus are designed to give the finder to arty.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQ

+1 to somenbjorn

I wasn't having trouble with Mortar Pits last night as OKW, hell just spamming LeIG barrage was enough to win a prolonged Arty back and forth fight because he couldn't repair due to the AOE and brace took the emplacement out of the fight when he decided to pop it. Eventually sent in a few units to mop up and there you go; emplacement countered.

Brace is fucking ridiculous. I was attacking a Bofors with two mortars and it was immune. Then ran in with flamer pios and he turned brace off, killed them within 2 salvos and turned on brace again. Took me half the game to get that overpowered shit out of the way.

Isn't it like reatreating but for buildings? Your structure recieves much less damage (although not invincible) but is put out of play for the duration.
I don't see any issues with it. Buidlings cannot run away so to give them some type of negation play to any call-ins is just a good one.

How hard is it to beat Brits otherwise? Select close air and just Stuka-Bomb your way to London.

Have you tried Stuka Dive Bombing it? Because I have, plus to go along with it in simultaneous order: Stuka dive bomb, Sturm Tiger Shot, (still not dead), it took a grenadier at close range nade to finish it off. It will be nerfed. There's no debate. The emplacement brace ability is as broken as a glass plate falling from an airplane.

Have you tried Stuka Dive Bombing it? Because I have, plus to go along with it in simultaneous order: Stuka dive bomb, Sturm Tiger Shot, (still not dead), it took a grenadier at close range nade to finish it off. It will be nerfed. There's no debate. The emplacement brace ability is as broken as a glass plate falling from an airplane.

Well the effectiveness off the Brace is a different matter in total, compared to the original suggestion of giving it a cooldown.

You can debate all day if its OP or not, which it is imo. But the crux is its just dull gameplay. I have flashbacks of Brit Sim City from Opposing Fronts

You can debate all day if its OP or not, which it is imo. But the crux is its just dull gameplay. I have flashbacks of Brit Sim City from Opposing Fronts

Please god not a repeat, noooooooo... That was so terrible I nearly quit coh when Brits released. I remember the counter being 2 cloaked whermacht shrek squads or double flame pios early game or it's gg.

Please god not a repeat, noooooooo... That was so terrible I nearly quit coh when Brits released. I remember the counter being 2 cloaked whermacht shrek squads or double flame pios early game or it's gg.

Lol, I was one of the people who spammed emplacements...

You can debate all day if its OP or not, which it is imo. But the crux is its just dull gameplay. I have flashbacks of Brit Sim City from Opposing Fronts

most relevant comment in this thread imho.

Brace is strong and necessary, without it Britain can't head with mobile redeploying German hard-counters. Look t it like this, if the Soviets put a Mortar on the front lines behind sandbags and the German player sends a mortar after it the Soviet player can engage in a duel, which is equal since they're both roughly the same size or can redeploy.

A British mortar unit has no such option, so thus Brace exists. To be frank, Germany should find it frustrating to deal with a dug in British force, the Brits entire early game relies on it before their Armour comes in. Suggesting to nerf brace would be the equivalent of suggesting to nerf the USF's jack of all trades, the OKW's veterancy or the USSR's low manpower cost. By removing that gimmick you destroy the point of playing Britain which is to push up and castle. It forces the AXIS team to actually have to stay on the offensive. I know the AXIS have never really liked doing so but believe me if you stay aggressive the Brits wont have the time or MP to get to brace.

All the times I've won as Britain it's been because the AXIS players stuck to the same old strategy of pushing 50% up and building bunkers. Well guess what that Strategy is obsolete Britain doesn't give a toss about your bunkers and because of Brace your mortars won't allow you to hide behind MG42's and do jack shit. You have to be aggressive and believe me if you keep pushing the Manpower bleed Britain will suffer will force them to fall back, then resist the urge to dig in like you used to and keep pushing up. It's VERY hard to come back from that. If you try to dig in at 50% the British field defenses are designed to force you back, Brace is there to enable them, the British are the ARTILLERY FACTION, you shouldn't win arty duels with them and Relic designed them to resist arty duels.

/Rant

TL;DR: Brits are the arty faction and thus are designed to give the finder to arty.

Your post, and the millions like it, would make sense if all Brace did in its current state was protect from counter battery fire. But that's not what it does. You can pull the Brit's forces to the other side of the map, then quickly flank with a Panzer 4 to kill that damn Bofors that the guy slapped on the fuel point when he held it for 30 seconds. Brace Structure flips on, the Panzer does nothing, and the Brit's tank and 6 pounder comes rushing back, or his American ally shows up with a newly buffed Sherman. This exact scenario happened to me last night on Rails and Metal, and it cost my team the game.

Brace Structure is fine in concept, as a way to allow the Brit emplacements to survive a prolonged slugfest. I can understand that. But as it is, it is nothing more than infinite invulnerability. Either keep it under constant fire with your own arty to keep it Braced, when your arty needs to be doing other things, or concede that whole area to the Brits.

IT NEEDS TO BE MORE VULNERABLE TO DIRECT ASSAULT WHEN IT IS BRACED. It's as simple as that.

You can debate all day if its OP or not, which it is imo. But the crux is its just dull gameplay. I have flashbacks of Brit Sim City from Opposing Fronts

Larger games are taking much longer than before in my experience when different factions are in play. The Brits, if they survive the early game, are able to lock down small sections and Allied players can be nearly impossible to dislodge early. This makes part of each map a no go zone. As long as you have 1 vp and 1 fuel this proceeds until the late game, at which point you return to fighting. The game play is fairly boring and poorly developed. There is no incentive to cap points near Brit hard points and they have no reason to leave.

Unfortunately the free flowing battles of COH2 are severely hampered by the Brit faction because Relic made them so dependent on holding ground without backing down.

To nerf brace will require early game options for Brits to be reexamined and balanced.

Agree with Budwise that this promotes dull gameplay.

I would much rather have a regular mortar team to the mortar pit.
Love the 17 pounder though.

Brace should be available to all factions or none. There really isn't any justification for Brits getting extremely durable buildings for no trade off in commander choice when the other factions need to pick commanders to get much much more fragile emplacements.

Basically just make it so Brace = No actions taken by braced building (no reinforce, no repairs, ect). And before you say it yes Brit emplacements cost pop cap, so do Pak43's, ML-20's, and LefH's (as well as Flak Emplacements!) but Brit emplacements are optional were as OKW trucks are mandatory. This begs the question, why is an optional unit choice more durable than something you are required to build no exceptions.

All emplacements of all factions should have brace with a cool down. On OKW trucks it would stop the truck from building units or fighting back or healing/repairing.

Yes because we need to switch high risk high reward ability into low risk high reward ability (talking about forward truck placement)



And if pak 43 cost 75 fuel and howitzers will cost fuel like in coh1 then yes they deserve brace.

So what you are saying is a dull playstyle isn't really brace but static emplacements. I can agree to that.

But we have them and it is a big part of the British faction. It is a core function not a flavor. And unlike OKW trucks they are required to be at the front.

So how would you do it instead? How do you prevent games turning into an arty/call-in slugfest, or the brits just never using that ability in another way? Do nothing but remove brace would make them pretty expensive for a unit that can be countered by the Sdkfz mortar half-truck and 45 muni.

Brace should be available to all factions or none.

Vet 5 should be available to all factions or none.
Upgrading without the need to go back to base should be available to all factions or none.
No need for side costs for nades and AT nades should be available to all factions or none.
AT only mines should be available to all factions or none.
Early game reinforing ht should be available to all factions or none.
Snipers should be available to all factions or none.
List goes on and on and on...

So what you are saying is a dull playstyle isn't really brace but static emplacements. I can agree to that.

But we have them and it is a big part of the British faction. It is a core function not a flavor. And unlike OKW trucks they are required to be at the front.

So how would you do it instead? How do you prevent games turning into an arty/call-in slugfest, or the brits just never using that ability in another way? Do nothing but remove brace would make them pretty expensive for a unit that can be countered by the Sdkfz mortar half-truck and 45 muni.

why do emplacements have to be good against everything? how about you just have other units that defend the emplacements as well? snipers dont have brace, and nobody would argue for them needing it.

Emplacements are there and thats fine and we dealt with them fine in vCOH. But if you pull of a flank on an over aggressively placed mortar pit and you arrive with 3 shreks in hand only to see "Bracing" MVGame it's pretty dimwitted. Bracing shouldn't be in the game. If emplacements are too low HP without it then give a little HP buff, but bracing is a fail mechanic.

why do emplacements have to be good against everything? how about you just have other units that defend the emplacements as well? snipers dont have brace, and nobody would argue for them needing it.

If only snipers had a defensive mechanic that would allow them to avoid being shot at.. something that would maybe allow them to move around without exposing themselves... something like.... camo perhaps?

Also, is it so hard to wait 30 seconds for brace to wear off? It have this thing called cooldown, which makes it unable to brace again for some time.

I wonder how long will it take for utter scrubs to learn brits and stop bitching about issues that are born between whining players keyboard and chair.