Lol at people still thinking the M5 is somehow ok.
I don't think theres a single person that plays at a reasonably good level that is dishonest enough to claim that the M5 isn't severely overperforming. When the thing can kill Ost T2 vehicles at max range in two bursts, wins every 1v1 vs the Flak HT, runs down squads better than any other unit, suppresses at max range, is extremely mobile, is AA, reinforces, and comes out at 7 minutes, 8 or 9 conservatively, while costing 270 manpower, 30 fuel, and 120 munitions... I don't even need to go on anymore.
Yes, you can counter it, its not unbeatable. It still requires an extremely disproportionate response to its presence.
Glad to hear its being looked at. The weapon crit change is a good start.
British Patch 3 Sep
28 Aug 2015, 03:10 AM
#221
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
 | Playercard of Dusty | |||||||||||||||
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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
28 Aug 2015, 07:27 AM
#222
1 
Posts: 440
28 Aug 2015, 10:25 AM
#225
1 
Posts: 551
OKW Flak HT (55 Fuel), USF AA HT (60 Fuel). Both vehicles serve the same purpose like the M5 while being outclassed by it. The OKW flak HT looses in a 1vs1 against the M5. And of course the M5 can reinforce. They all have the same hp.
You don't compare units with their counters, like you did with the puma, but with units that serve the same role.
Munition costs for the upgrade can be neglected. They don't delay your tech and you don't have crucial upgrades or munition sinks that you need to spend the munitions on.
What? OKW Flak HT loses against M5? Have you been eating mushrooms or what?
28 Aug 2015, 10:28 AM
#226
Posts: 4928
What? OKW Flak HT loses against M5? Have you been eating mushrooms or what?
Do you ever play the game or do you just complain about how allied units are UP even when they're OP?
Yes, the Quad has a good chance at winning against a 251/17, and that's if the 251/17 is already set up. If it's not set up, it's a guaranteed victory for the Quad.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Aug 2015, 11:00 AM
#227
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
The only way an M5 can lose to an OKW Flak HT is if the OKW Flak HT is vet 1, uses defensive smoke, and attacks ground on the M5.
If a player loses that fight any other way, then it is a serious L2P issue and they should be mocked.
If a player loses that fight any other way, then it is a serious L2P issue and they should be mocked.
28 Aug 2015, 11:09 AM
#228
Posts: 4928
The only way an M5 can lose to an OKW Flak HT is if the OKW Flak HT is vet 1, uses defensive smoke, and attacks ground on the M5.
Wrong, I've tested it in Cheat Mod. The Quad has a good chance to kill the 251/17. The fight could go either way.
Often what happens is the 251/17 will suffer Main Gun Destroyed, giving the Quad an easy victory. Due to a bug, if the Quad gets Main Gun Destroyed, nothing will happen and it will keep fighting.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Aug 2015, 11:13 AM
#229
Posts: 1217
In a vacuum maybe. In a real game the M5 wins as soon as the Flak HT starts to move. I just don´t see any reason the M5 should be allowed to fire on the move.
Wrong, I've tested it in Cheat Mod. The Quad has a good chance to kill the 251/17. The fight could go either way.
Often what happens is the 251/17 will suffer Main Gun Destroyed, giving the Quad an easy victory. Due to a bug, if the Quad gets Main Gun Destroyed, nothing will happen and it will keep fighting.
One of the biggest issues with the M5 is its squad wiping ability by chasing down retreating squads on the move.
28 Aug 2015, 11:18 AM
#230
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Wrong, I've tested it in Cheat Mod. The Quad has a good chance to kill the 251/17. The fight could go either way.
Often what happens is the 251/17 will suffer Main Gun Destroyed, giving the Quad an easy victory. Due to a bug, if the Quad gets Main Gun Destroyed, nothing will happen and it will keep fighting.
And with the new patch, quad won't be able to give 251/17 main gun destroyed.
I'd also say that 120 muni is worth more then 15 fuel, so combined cost of quad is between 251/17 and M-15.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Aug 2015, 11:24 AM
#231
Posts: 4928
And with the new patch, quad won't be able to give 251/17 main gun destroyed.
I'd also say that 120 muni is worth more then 15 fuel, so combined cost of quad is between 251/17 and M-15.
The Quad can also fire on the move and reinforce, that's also worth more than 15 fuel.
And people people were naysaying, the Quad just won 10/10 in my tests.
all you filthy hotchkiss lovers need to l2p #TeamPanzerIII
> Kriegsbeute Doctrine|Partisan Rework|British Infantry Rework|Soviet Assault Squad <
28 Aug 2015, 11:28 AM
#232
Posts: 830
They must be afraid of soviet precision strike. Oh wait
Nevermind, they probably don't want to waste 600mp and have it lost to 2 braindead clicks on the most popular and meta doctrine allies use that have both recon plane and non RNG based strike capable of killing it. Oh wait
Don't be so silly, one creeping barrage from Katty and the LeFH is gone. LeFH is the easier to kill than the stupid ML-20.
Yet it's overnerf was just Relic being Relic. A little damage reduction of 15-20% would have done fine, the 50% is just way to much
And USF, mines, finally fully potent again.
No fix for Quad main gun destroyed but still being able to fire bug
Other than that, great work!
EDIT: Also Jason, if you are still here, what do you think of this fine game mechanic exploit (watch Price's pop cap):
Will it ever get fixed Jason?
28 Aug 2015, 11:34 AM
#233
3 Posts: 322
Haha guys read your posts.
Sully says: Quad is better
Someguy responds: Wrong! Quad is better
Butcher responds: Only in a vacuum, otherwise Quad is better.
Someguy says: Look I tested! Quad is better.
I am confused
Sully says: Quad is better
Someguy responds: Wrong! Quad is better
Butcher responds: Only in a vacuum, otherwise Quad is better.
Someguy says: Look I tested! Quad is better.
I am confused
28 Aug 2015, 12:01 PM
#234
Posts: 1217
Haha guys read your posts.I was referring to "the fight could go either way." In a vacuum maybe, but people are moving their vehicles. Or you get nervous and try to get your vehicle out there. The Flak HT won´t be able to fire.
Sully says: Quad is better
Someguy responds: Wrong! Quad is better
Butcher responds: Only in a vacuum, otherwise Quad is better.
Someguy says: Look I tested! Quad is better.
I am confused
28 Aug 2015, 12:44 PM
#235
Posts: 1439
Lol at people still thinking the M5 is somehow ok.
I don't think theres a single person that plays at a reasonably good level that is dishonest enough to claim that the M5 isn't severely overperforming. When the thing can kill Ost T2 vehicles at max range in two bursts, wins every 1v1 vs the Flak HT, runs down squads better than any other unit, suppresses at max range, is extremely mobile, is AA, reinforces, and comes out at 7 minutes, 8 or 9 conservatively, while costing 270 manpower, 30 fuel, and 120 munitions... I don't even need to go on anymore.
Yes, you can counter it, its not unbeatable. It still requires an extremely disproportionate response to its presence.
Glad to hear its being looked at. The weapon crit change is a good start.
I think it's safe to say that we can just ignore the opinion of people that thinks Quad M5 is OK. as deeply biased.
I trust Relic to adjust it in early September balance patch they promised.
28 Aug 2015, 12:52 PM
#236
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
Wrong, I've tested it in Cheat Mod. The Quad has a good chance to kill the 251/17. The fight could go either way.
Often what happens is the 251/17 will suffer Main Gun Destroyed, giving the Quad an easy victory. Due to a bug, if the Quad gets Main Gun Destroyed, nothing will happen and it will keep fighting.
I think you should re-read my post.
28 Aug 2015, 13:20 PM
#237
Posts: 254
Yet 90%+ (?) of players/matches are not 1v1 so surely they are in fact more important.
Yes, for Relic's catering to the needs of the community, but not for "this is op and nerf that and this is a stupid interaction" whining in balance threads. Everything gets derailed the more players take part in it. The game and its little interactions are very complex, there is no solution to please 1v1 and 4v4 players alike.
As I mentioned before, they should simply add a disclaimer to loading screens beyond 1v1 tellin ppl that there may be imbalances and increased numbers of weird interactions since more than 2 ppl are playing.
28 Aug 2015, 13:27 PM
#238
Posts: 179
M5 looks like it might even be losing its suppression. I noticed in the most recent gameplay vids it never suppresses infantry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=banG2Ms7jo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=banG2Ms7jo8
28 Aug 2015, 13:48 PM
#239
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
M5 looks like it might even be losing its suppression. I noticed in the most recent gameplay vids it never suppresses infantry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=banG2Ms7jo8
I didn't see M5 suppress as well in your link.
In fact, I didn't see soviets there.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Aug 2015, 14:06 PM
#240
Posts: 179
I didn't see M5 suppress as well in your link.
In fact, I didn't see soviets there.
It must have been in a review video I saw recently. I thought it was that video, mi escuse, mi escuse.
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