Broken balance USF vs OST

So, with the recent patch of ostheer early MP buffs, mg to T0, the matchup of USF vs OST has been heavily skewed towards ostheer.


USF simply has no chance on most 1v1 maps in the current meta againts ostheer.


MG-42s simply completely shut you down, even if they supress and force retreats of 1-2 rifles early game, the ostheer player gets huge map control, and the 4 men squad mg-42 just completely shuts down USF.

Meanwhile the ostheer 420mp in the early game means that his grens will always outnumber you, and grens now evenly trade with you, further putting you at a disadvantage.

LT tier isin't very good, as the old meta m20 gets easily countered by a super quick cheap 220 which is cheaper yet easily beats the m20.

AA HT simply comes too late , and you cannot get enough map control while the ostheer player simply pushes you off the map with mg-42+ gren combo. Problem is, you will always be heavily outnumbered in the early game, making you completely unable to flank.


Only hope is to tech nades and 4 rifles, but even then, it's extremelly map dependant and very hard to flank MGs when they are used by good players.

Something seriously needs to be done. This last patch has fucked up balance significantly, soviets are now pretty much OP due to their quadrush, while USF simply has no chance vs ostheer.

I think the ostheer manpower change needs to get reverted. It gives the ostheer an infantry advantage and completely negates the USF early game superiority.

At this current time, USF is completely hopeless vs a good ostheer player. Problem is the early game. In the lategame with shermans+ jacksons you are still at a disadvantage againts meta ostheer, but atleast the disadvantage can be elevated if you play good. Currently, in the early game, USF simply can't do anything.

Another suggestion it to remove the ability for support weapons to cap. Like in coh 1.


If you disagree, please post a replay of you beating a top 50 or better ostheer player, because i seriously need advice.

USF is completely useless now. two ostheer hmg shut down everything. there is no early game now.

Totally agree. IMO giving Rifles vet 0 smoke and AT nades through the grenade package would help. This is how it worked in WFA alpha I believe.

Also think that the AA track needs a buff to its old glory days, and that the m20 needs a MP price buff to 260. Oh, and giving the Americans a mortar for christs sake.

Another option is to completely redesign rifles, make them 240-260mp, and make them weaker than grens at long range, slightly better at mid and better at close (kind of like coh 1 rifles vs volks) but significantly buff their scaling so they are better in the early game.

Rifles being cheaper would help them being flanker units.

It's too early to say anything about balance. Try to test more and come back after.
Best way to play USF is 4 Rifles -> Cpt -> Stuart -> Pack Howitzer.
Stuart dominates Ostheer T1 T2. Even two Paks are not going to kill it and it counters FHT and Scout car. Pack howitzer deals good MP damage and forces the OH sniper to be more careful and thus less effective. LMGs are a must on most maps cuz they allow you to beat LMG Grens. I have to admit that late game is very difficult tho.

Honestly, the biggest issue for USF is the fact that they don't have any real indirect fire that comes early enough to screen advances.

I would say to add a shitty mortar in T0 for USF, and give it a shitty barrage, good smoke, and vet 1 WP rounds.

See how the matchup is then, and adjust as necessary.

Upgrade BAR ASAP, They wipe MG's a lot quicker with a good flank. Also get m20 equip the crew with extra bazooka. (wich you get for FREE now Kappa) One salvo from m20 main 50cal + 2 zook shots (dismount crew) insta kills the 222.

RE spam with multiple muni caches into fast Stuarts may work as well.

RE spam with multiple muni caches into fast Stuarts may work as well.

Sorry, but this is just a completly ridiciluos suggestion. You absolutely cannot afford to make even one cache in the early game, as any faction, let alone multiple caches. You simply get completely pushed off the map because your enemy has +1 squad. REs simply do not deal enough DPS and they cannot even reliably kill 1 MG if you flank it.

Honestly, the biggest issue for USF is the fact that they don't have any real indirect fire that comes early enough to screen advances.

I would say to add a shitty mortar in T0 for USF, and give it a shitty barrage, good smoke, and vet 1 WP rounds.

See how the matchup is then, and adjust as necessary.

That sounds like a good idea. Give USF a cheap mortar with a low-cooldown smoke barrage, so that they can pop smoke without bleeding all their munitions.

Would certainly be interesting to have a mortar with a more strict support role, one that can't do much damage or bleed MP. Give it smoke and flares. Would also be cool if it could shoot little mines lol.

RE spam with multiple muni caches into fast Stuarts may work as well.

Oh yea, you do that and come back with results against anyone with rank better then 400.

Again, relic implements only part of changes leaving out most important stuff and thinking it'll be nice and dandy.

who the hell still plays usf now with the recent tier changes

go play soviets and rush a m5

Give it up burts. USF is just shit and, at this point, i think it wont see major changes.

Additionally, You know almost everyone here still thinks usf is op for some reason. Mabey its cus usf is the least played faction so they wouldnt even know.

i've been in the alpha and all ill say is that good things will come to those who wait regarding USF indirect fire options IIRC.

Though I have to say USF-OST match DOES favour ost. Due to armor tech prices. USF pays 205 fu ro access medium armor (incl nades and racks, T2) compared to Ost (170). And we all know USF pays more fu in mid game for its vehicles than Ost does

Trouble against MG's? Use smoke and "On Me!" with the captain that pretty much allows you to walk through any number of MG spam.

I've been finding USF easier to play without mech assault every game, get early BAR's + grenades and on most maps bar minsk Ost are helpless without their precious Stug E. Rifle company still works great with flamer spam, captain/packhowi/Stuart is actually a good choice now with the price adjustments.

Please tell me how OP non doc Ost armour is compared to USF, I wish I had PIV's with stock smoke, super glue and HE rounds and a turreted TD with 60 range and 240 damage.

Trouble against MG's? Use smoke and "On Me!" with the captain that pretty much allows you to walk through any number of MG spam.

I've been finding USF easier to play without mech assault every game, get early BAR's + grenades and on most maps bar minsk Ost are helpless without their precious Stug E. Rifle company still works great with flamer spam, captain/packhowi/Stuart is actually a good choice now with the price adjustments.

Please tell me how OP non doc Ost armour is compared to USF, I wish I had PVIV's with stock smoke, super glue and HE rounds and a turreted TD with 60 range and 240 damage.

You must be amazing at this game! You should become a mentor and teach all of us how to play USF in 1s and 2s!

You can sign up here:

http://www.coh2.org/topic/36123/mentor-program-2015--mentor-sign-ups

How about you become my mentor Comm_ash? You seem very fond of my posts, I've already posted in the mentee thread

We can overcome the invincible force of MG42's together

How about you become my mentor Comm_ash? You seem very fond of my posts, I've already posted in the mentee thread

We can overcome the invincible force of MG42's together

Unfortunately I already stated that I would only mentor people interested in all the factions. You put down Axis only

Give it up burts. USF is just shit and, at this point, i think it wont see major changes.

Additionally, You know almost everyone here still thinks usf is op for some reason. Mabey its cus usf is the least played faction so they wouldnt even know.

USF vs OKW matchup greatly favors USF tho. So saying USF is UP only goes for USF vs OH match up.

Don't worry ash, our love will carry through