Make Falls and Obers 5 man squads

Terrible idea which breaks the OKW faction design

Alex, both faction groups have a lot of insta-gib capable explosions (rifle-nades for example, hell any nade be it shocks or volks). For you not to be able to acknowledge this just hurts your ability to debate the issue as it makes you seem biased.

Before you should be calling for any balance changes you should be asking for squad AI spacing changes.

Iv been asking for squad spacing changes forever, and I gave up a while ago. But if your operating under the idea that Soviets don't have the most squad wipe capable stuff then well I don't really know what to say. The amount of squad wipe or almost squad wipe options available to Soviets puts any Axis counterpart to shame, except for maybe the Sturmtiger.

Let me put it this way; Soviets have tools that wipe more often than not, Axis has tools that do more reliable damage rather than just out right 1 shotting squads.

Iv been asking for squad spacing changes forever, and I gave up a while ago. But if your operating under the idea that Soviets don't have the most squad wipe capable stuff then well I don't really know what to say. The amount of squad wipe or almost squad wipe options available to Soviets puts any Axis counterpart to shame, except for maybe the Sturmtiger.

Let me put it this way; Soviets have tools that wipe more often than not, Axis has tools that do more reliable damage rather than just out right 1 shotting squads.

Y'know, given the choice between having a more reliable chance of wiping squads with regular small arms fire through consistent DPS or being able to occasionally wipe bunched up squads every now and then through RNG, I would definitely pick the former.

Personally I think that Axis has the advantage in this regards. Sure as SU I can wipe a squad if I get lucky with a barrage and score a good hit in the first volley, before my enemy moves, but as OH I can wipe a squad more reliably just by getting a pgren or a couple LMG42s within effective range, with far less need for helpful RNG.

Would you rather be able to get lucky wipes now and then, or be able to reliably wipe through your own tactics?

obers and falls are too much of investment atm, yet it doesn't give back enough rewards.

obers is odered from most dangerous building, it doesn't have enough survival ability, it arrive so late in the game, yet can't go into combat immediately need wait for lmg upgrade, otherwise it just a 400mp gren, also since damage reduction it doesn't perform well against vet infantries, (my lmg obers lost green cover shoot out against a vet 2 double BAR rifle, so i don't think it will win against LT either).

falls have excellent dps, but way too paper to be effective on battlefield, it need meat shield in front to take hits. people say it spawn in empty buildings behind the line and kill everything is OP, I have to say it only works half the time, as it does effectively kill mortar crews or flank HMG they maybe able to decrew it but they cant destroy those equipment so it will be some mediocre MP bleed, but many many times you spawn your falls in the middle or near the heavy enemy forces they got wiped in matter of secs before they can do any serious damage, also it is very hard for it to kill kachusha or 120mm, and will not scratch priest. which are the major art in late game, on other hands the useless irregulars can kill walking stuka or Panzerwerfer in late game much easier than falls. also if spawn falls behind enemy line when it retreats it need run though entire enemy forces in front line, the chance it go back to base safely is less than half, so it gives only 1/3-1/4 chance to survive to spawn behind the lines. can it cost 440mp damage during the spawn behind enemy line, not likely.

so I think obers should at least get their lmg back for free, and falls it need receive accuracy buff or armor buff so it can survive better. I really don't care about remove spawn by building change to paradrop thing, as it I don't use spawn by building to kill enemy art behind the line only to spawn by cutoff to uncap the cut off to force enemy draw unit back to cap it. also i think obers and falls should get reinforce price reduction as current price is too high for such fragile unit

The Ostheer rifle nade squad wipes all the time. I don't see any problem with a M8 Scott howitzer getting a direct hit resulting in a wipe. More credible than the rifle nade that is way op. I very rarely see my usf nade doing significant damage in comparison.

The Ostheer rifle nade squad wipes all the time. I don't see any problem with a M8 Scott howitzer getting a direct hit resulting in a wipe. More credible than the rifle nade that is way op. I very rarely see my usf nade doing significant damage in comparison.

Same aoe, same damage as normal nades

Relic created the tight formation feature to optimize cover mechanic in the game. The squads are very fluid and responsive when properly placed against objects. I don't think they will fix this "tight" formation as we had more problems with lose formations and clunky mechanics of squad covers and placements before.

Y'know, given the choice between having a more reliable chance of wiping squads with regular small arms fire through consistent DPS or being able to occasionally wipe bunched up squads every now and then through RNG, I would definitely pick the former.

Personally I think that Axis has the advantage in this regards. Sure as SU I can wipe a squad if I get lucky with a barrage and score a good hit in the first volley, before my enemy moves, but as OH I can wipe a squad more reliably just by getting a pgren or a couple LMG42s within effective range, with far less need for helpful RNG.

Would you rather be able to get lucky wipes now and then, or be able to reliably wipe through your own tactics?

Exactly, that was in my initial post but Alex ignored it altogether. For the most part Allies rely on one-shots to wipe squads while axis as Alex said can sustain more reliable dps which means more reliably killing retreating squads.

The fact is Soviets 1-shots seem so bad to a lot of Axis players because that is mostly how they lose the squad. Demo charge at this point is the only really cheap thing soviets have in that regard atm.

Exactly, that was in my initial post but Alex ignored it altogether. For the most part Allies rely on one-shots to wipe squads while axis as Alex said can sustain more reliable dps which means more reliably killing retreating squads.

The fact is Soviets 1-shots seem so bad to a lot of Axis players because that is mostly how they lose the squad. Demo charge at this point is the only really cheap thing soviets have in that regard atm.

1 shot squad wipes over bleed impact Axis very hard because OKW/Ost rely very heavily on veteranacy scaling in order to keep up with Allied elite infantry. If an enemy player just "bleeds" me when I'm playing OKW I can still stay in the game because my infantry will be able to scale and then deal with Shocks/guards/rifleblobs.

I'm all for making Allied "damage" more consistent, but 1 shot squad wipes lay mostly in the hands of Soviets which is why they are so amazing this patch. I really don't think it's debatable that in the competitive modes that the extremely powerful artillery capabilities of Soviets don't make for a fun match when countering is impossible as OKW.

Unit formation spread changes are necessary, but honestly OKW getting evened out into all 5 man squads/weapon teams (while keeping the same overall DPS of the squad and durability by adjusting recieved accuracy) things would be more consistent, same for USF.

For wiping 1 squad with a Scott, how many time do it miss its target before? I have seen countless of players rushing a position defended by a Scott, having lucky miss until finally the scott wipe the squad at the 4th/5th shot.

People tend to only count when it wipes, but never when it misses before the wipe.