So all the other factions had various changes to the tech. All the factions except for OKW.
Now, I would argue that OKW already has the best tech structure in the game - each tier offers a variety of complementary units, each building provides a secondary benefit (flak, mechanics, medics), and OKW has very early access to some late game unit types (walking stuka/Jagdpanzer4) - not to mention that once they have all their tech they unlock the heaviest tank in the game and it isn't even doctrinal.
So my question, especially with the recent tech changes, is if OKW's tech is fair?
I don't think it is and I think some of the following changes should be considered:
Increase Panzer HQ cost from 80 to 100 FU.
Make both battle group and mech HQ a requirement to unlock panzer HQ.
Swap out the Jagdpanzer and Walking stuka with Luchs and Obers into whichever HQ seems best - just so long as stuka and Jagdpanzer end up in Panzer HQ.
Not saying to do all or even any of these, but I think some kind of change is needed. I'm afraid we'll see some OPKness in this upcoming patch.
OKW Tech: Is it Fair?
20 Jul 2015, 18:30 PM
#1
Posts: 141
20 Jul 2015, 18:43 PM
#2
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
I don't think you have thought these changes through. What do you think the average game of USF or Soviets vs OKE would look like if you made these changed?
20 Jul 2015, 18:46 PM
#3
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Stuka and JPIV in T4? What is a OKW player supposed to do if his enemy goes FHQ or does a medium tank/light vehicle rush? Cry?
OKW will always be limited to what they can get no matter what. So even if his shit arrives earlier he will always have less tanks than you assuming equal map control.
OKW will always be limited to what they can get no matter what. So even if his shit arrives earlier he will always have less tanks than you assuming equal map control.
20 Jul 2015, 18:47 PM
#4
Posts: 915
OKW seems to be at such a disadvantage right now. Let's keep them as is for now and maybe they will catch up to allied factions.
20 Jul 2015, 18:55 PM
#5
3 
Posts: 658
Yes, it is fair.
Teching costs got changed for all other factions but those changes are not even nerfs. Only Wehrmacht teching got nerfed because both, T3 and T4, got more expensive.
Soviet T3 got cheaper by 40-50FU and will be pretty strong next patch.
USF Major got more expensive (+30FU) but Captain tier is 20F cheaper and you save 15F for BARs / Zooks.
I recommend this thread to get a nice overview over the new teching costs: http://www.coh2.org/topic/36782/teching-analysis-and-faction-comparison-re-july-21-patch
Teching costs got changed for all other factions but those changes are not even nerfs. Only Wehrmacht teching got nerfed because both, T3 and T4, got more expensive.
Soviet T3 got cheaper by 40-50FU and will be pretty strong next patch.
USF Major got more expensive (+30FU) but Captain tier is 20F cheaper and you save 15F for BARs / Zooks.
I recommend this thread to get a nice overview over the new teching costs: http://www.coh2.org/topic/36782/teching-analysis-and-faction-comparison-re-july-21-patch
20 Jul 2015, 19:12 PM
#6
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
You seem to be concerned about OKW rushing for Flak HQ but you have to realize that doing so successfully requires a sizable fuel advantage for the OKW player given their fuel penalty (40 + 80 + another 125 for PZ4). Not to mention that means the OKW player is losing out on one of his other two buildings and generally skipping light vehicles for faster rush.
I suppose in larger team games where fuel income is inflated and they have access to OST fuel caches this might be more relevant but with the current cost of SU/USF teching they should have more than enough time to get out counters if not outright having an advantage in 1vs1.
I suppose in larger team games where fuel income is inflated and they have access to OST fuel caches this might be more relevant but with the current cost of SU/USF teching they should have more than enough time to get out counters if not outright having an advantage in 1vs1.
21 Jul 2015, 05:49 AM
#7
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Please if you are frustrated playing against a certain faction or certain units of a faction, please try to read some strategies how to deal with it, rather than asking for nerfs.
If your changes would be made through, OKW had no counter to teamweapon spam aka maxim + zis combo until it reaches T4, which would be even delayed by your suggestion.
Likewise strategies like Su76 spam had absolutely no counter, since the JP4 would've been moved too.
Those units are in those techs because relic thought OKW should be able to survive the game also only with T2 + T3 present.
If your changes would be made through, OKW had no counter to teamweapon spam aka maxim + zis combo until it reaches T4, which would be even delayed by your suggestion.
Likewise strategies like Su76 spam had absolutely no counter, since the JP4 would've been moved too.
Those units are in those techs because relic thought OKW should be able to survive the game also only with T2 + T3 present.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
Which faction is OP and which is UP? Check it out here
Tips for beginners and wannabe pro's
21 Jul 2015, 06:52 AM
#8
Posts: 1891
The OKW infantry spam and light vehicle play will be hit very hard by the new Soviet T3 and fast Captain OP. Their teching is cheap because they don't have cheap, effective generalist units like Rifles, Guards, Cons, Stuart, SU-76M, T34/76, Sherman etc.
Think of them as a combined arms army. They need different unit types to be truely effective, and forward bases to help maintain field presence. Therefore they need cheap teching. If an OKW rushes a flak building it means no Puma or Flaktrack, or fuel/muni transfer, so you should be able to restrict them to a small portion of the map. It also means they lack Stuka. Machine guns and AT guns counter OKW player that goes infantry spam into Schwerer.
Fast Sherman won't dominate OKW anymore, which is good.
Think of them as a combined arms army. They need different unit types to be truely effective, and forward bases to help maintain field presence. Therefore they need cheap teching. If an OKW rushes a flak building it means no Puma or Flaktrack, or fuel/muni transfer, so you should be able to restrict them to a small portion of the map. It also means they lack Stuka. Machine guns and AT guns counter OKW player that goes infantry spam into Schwerer.
Fast Sherman won't dominate OKW anymore, which is good.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
21 Jul 2015, 07:07 AM
#9
Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1
OKW tech is almost perfect. Dont change it, and if you do, for the benefit of OKW please. You really cant call them OP now.
servant to the vet 5 königskübel
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
b4 and soviet FHQ enthusiast
fan of the illustrious black prince
21 Jul 2015, 07:11 AM
#10
Posts: 476
Just remove the god damn 37mm flak gun of death
21 Jul 2015, 07:20 AM
#11
Posts: 176
Just remove the god damn 37mm flak gun of death
Aye, the flak can of death which definitely cannot be killed by a lone AT gun or a brave demo.
21 Jul 2015, 07:24 AM
#12
4 Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1
OKW tech is fine. OKW takes a long time to replace units, so I'm fine with units arriving slightly faster than their counterparts in other armies.
21 Jul 2015, 07:24 AM
#13
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
I would be okay with the 37mm cannon getting slightly reduced range but more health.
21 Jul 2015, 07:26 AM
#14
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Just remove the god damn 37mm flak gun of death
Or do what should have been done since day 1-make it a side cost upgrade.
OKW is getting enough freebies in tech and utility as it is.
No need for them to be that special snowflake all the time.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
21 Jul 2015, 07:35 AM
#15
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
Or do what should have been done since day 1-make it a side cost upgrade.
OKW is getting enough freebies in tech and utility as it is.
No need for them to be that special snowflake all the time.
Majors don't need to upgrade to get there retreat point, LT's don't need to upgrade to get BARS, Captain doesn't need to upgrade to get Zook's. Why in gods name should OKW pay to get the 37mm Flak Cannon?
WFA factions have fun side bonus's as a reward for teching as been a thing since forever. And OKW needs things like the Schwer to keep map control due to OKW's quite lackluster early game.
21 Jul 2015, 07:36 AM
#16
Posts: 204
The only thing i would like to see change and this is mostly for 3v3+ on larger maps is for the Med base not to be able to unlock the fall back upgrade until another truck is made. This comes out way to fast and mess up 3v3+ the most.
21 Jul 2015, 07:37 AM
#17
Posts: 1891
I would be okay with the 37mm cannon getting slightly reduced range but more health.
It should be less effective but the player should be able to control what it fires at. Adds more skill to the unit/building.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
21 Jul 2015, 07:39 AM
#18
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
It should be less effective but the player should be able to control what it fires at. Adds more skill to the unit/building.
Eh I think it's in a good place damage and DPS wise. But it getting slightly reduced range but the ability to be player controlled would be p awesome.
Also give OKW trucks an ability to remove their bonus's/benefits but enter a mode of taking reduced damage for a certain amount of time. During this time they are locked into the defensive mode and can't do anything but take significantly reduced damage.
EDIT: this would introduce some fun counter play, cause it kinda sucks that your ultra important trucks can be wiped off the map quite easily using call in artillery.
21 Jul 2015, 07:50 AM
#19
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
Oh, come on.
37mm is necessary for OKW. Otherwise there will be high chance of losing base structure every time OKW player forced to mass retreat which is pretty much GG. Or maybe it is only from my perception of 4v4 player (large maps, long retreats... y'now).
37mm is necessary for OKW. Otherwise there will be high chance of losing base structure every time OKW player forced to mass retreat which is pretty much GG. Or maybe it is only from my perception of 4v4 player (large maps, long retreats... y'now).
21 Jul 2015, 07:51 AM
#20
Posts: 1891
Like Brace Structure. If it reduced resource income while active or costed muni or MP(nothing crazy) I think it would be cool.
On the 37mm, I have no problem at all with it denying territory but I've had it wipe retreating squads one too many times. Tbh I think having to face it like British AT guns in VCoH but buffing it to vet 5 Flaktrack levels would be good too.
On the 37mm, I have no problem at all with it denying territory but I've had it wipe retreating squads one too many times. Tbh I think having to face it like British AT guns in VCoH but buffing it to vet 5 Flaktrack levels would be good too.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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