Suggestion: Rear Echelon Rework

Rear Echelon Rework

Why does this unit need a rework? As it stands now this unit is caught somewhere between an unnecessary engineer (since it does not have mines, and since USF vehicle crews can repair their own), cannon fodder, or niche strats, or a bazooka platform. The bottom line is that Rear Echelons are a weirdly designed unit without a clearly designed role. To make matters worse USF starting options are very limited and this is only one of two non doctrinal units available to US at start of game (ambulance does not count).

I can understand why some people wouldn’t want to make any changes to this unit - under reasoning such as it’s a good bazooka platform, my “X” niche strategy works sometimes, or it’s nice to have super cheap cannon fodder. Or even because you just like that it can build tank traps (great!). However, RE needs to be reworked because the unit has a very awkward lineup of abilities and traits, and aside from adding a new unit to T0 reworking REs is the best way to solve some of the problems with USF openings.


Changes to Rear Echelon:
Increase cost to 210MP (RE base accuracy is increased by 25%), No longer has grenade launcher without upgrade while in fighting position.

Changes to Volley Fire – now works like infiltration grenades (as in it can only cool down while not in combat) but no longer costs MU to activate.

Add grenade launcher upgrade:
Grenade Launcher 60MU: Would work almost exactly as it does now except they could use it in the open ( - 1 sec to max reload while in garrison), while in the open would have a 2 sec setup time but no teardown time. What this does is gives USF a mobile light mortar of sorts but with short range. It could also be still be used inside fighting positions and now inside garrison as well (with a reload bonus). This upgrade takes up all weapon slots Also, grenade launcher will not be fired if volley fire is active.

Rear Echelon Rework

Why does this unit need a rework? As it stands now this unit is caught somewhere between an unnecessary engineer (since it does not have mines, and since USF vehicle crews can repair their own), cannon fodder, or niche strats, or a bazooka platform. The bottom line is that Rear Echelons are a weirdly designed unit without a clearly designed role. To make matters worse USF starting options are very limited and this is only one of two non doctrinal units available to US at start of game (ambulance does not count).

I can understand why some people wouldn’t want to make any changes to this unit - under reasoning such as it’s a good bazooka platform, my “X” niche strategy works sometimes, or it’s nice to have super cheap cannon fodder. Or even because you just like that it can build tank traps (great!). However, RE needs to be reworked because the unit has a very awkward lineup of abilities and traits, and aside from adding a new unit to T0 reworking REs is the best way to solve some of the problems with USF openings.


Changes to Rear Echelon:
Increase cost to 210MP (RE base accuracy is increased by 25%), No longer has grenade launcher without upgrade while in fighting position.

Changes to Volley Fire – now works like infiltration grenades (as in it can only cool down while not in combat) but no longer costs MU to activate.

Add grenade launcher upgrade:
Grenade Launcher 60MU: Would work almost exactly as it does now except they could use it in the open ( - 1 sec to max reload while in garrison), while in the open would have a 2 sec setup time but no teardown time. What this does is gives USF a mobile light mortar of sorts but with short range. It could also be still be used inside fighting positions and now inside garrison as well (with a reload bonus). This upgrade takes up all weapon slots Also, grenade launcher will not be fired if volley fire is active.

Give them spoon and spatula to increase close range DPS,as rear echelon troops tended to be back of the line cooks.

Not but really they should get sandbags and Light M7 Mines,that would be fitting

What about a 60 munition flamer upgrade?

What about a 60 munition flamer upgrade?

Because USF needs something with a bit of range. The idea is that they could support rifleman, not get mowed down with them in a suicidal flamer rush...

I wanted RE troops to be USFs main infantry for the start of the match. 5 man squads that could build defenses fast and hold the line until actual troops arrived in later tiers (Bulge Style).

We got troops that literally miss 3 consecutive shots at point blank range and figured out that tank traps are the most efficient green cover they can build.

On topic, I like this idea, would need to be fleshed out, but the rnades would give USF a counter to mgs, without bleeding manpower like a stuffed pig.

umm. they are great platform for the whole weapons rack.

they also have better combat vet than vcoh2 engineers.

they build fighting positions, tanktraps and wires.

i think your idea of RE can be implemented on a whole new T0 unit. that would surely make USF opening more interesting.

muh dual bazooka penal unit

muh dual bazooka penal unit

I knew there was going to be a lot of this. Yes RE's synergize well with bazookas, and yes RE's can build tank traps. Yes i get it.

That still does nothing to fix the fact that they have untapped potential as a USF starting unit that could open up USF from the rather stale opening of "rifleman spam".

I knew there was going to be a lot of this. Yes RE's synergize well with bazookas, and yes RE's can build tank traps. Yes i get it.

That still does nothing to fix the fact that they have untapped potential as a USF starting unit that could open up USF from the rather stale opening of "rifleman spam".

Thats more due to the issue of USF not being designed well. Rear ech imo I like cuz they are extremely cheap and dont bleed for shit and are more ability based unit. Shitty straight up, but are meant to be behind the lines infantry.; Relic wants you to use them as support troops that build stuff and can't beat anything by themselves. They are basically just military police not combat infantry.

Their uses are being cheap as chips, weapon upgrades, harassing undefended points and building shit. They dont have much uses at the start except for quick capping cuz they dont have to build anything and being behind your rifles for that extra smidge of dps and the occasional volley fire.

I want usf to change, but i dont think changing rear ech is it. If only the dodge was non doc and not shit, or a 60mm.

Would be cool if they could make sanbags and plant m7 mines but other then that i think that they are ok for their cost, maybe they could get the unused voice lines

volley fire feels useless tough

You know, I keep hearing about the possibility of USF getting 60MM mortar. And while I think that could be nice, it is a really weird starting unit IMO. It isn't very mobile and I'm sure relic would make it pretty shitty.

well i mean it is a 60mm, riflemen are good enough that adding another starting unit that have the potency to go toe to toe with grens/volks/sturms would be OP. It'd be like putting panzergrenadiers in t1.

Yes its boring as of now, but its more balanced than any alternative I've ever heard to change it as of now.

CP0 tanktraps, wire, fighting positions and infinite riflenades, nice veterancy bonuses, perfect bazooka squad, caches, 160 mp

What else do you want?

Interesting...I'd certainly at least like the Volley Fire change to happen. Makes BARing REs feel better (ain't no one got the munitions to give em' BARs which is then mostly for the purpose of spending more munitions on Volley Fire constantly...), avoids the former times of them being mobile unflankable HMGs that do no damage at the cost of munitions..

I wanted RE troops to be USFs main infantry for the start of the match. 5 man squads that could build defenses fast and hold the line until actual troops arrived in later tiers (Bulge Style).

I was hoping for that myself based off the early preview for USF with Pqumsieh there.

Didn't happen. Certainly wouldn't have worked with the image of a "mobile" faction, I guess.

CP0 tanktraps, wire, fighting positions and infinite riflenades, nice veterancy bonuses, perfect bazooka squad, caches, 160 mp

What else do you want?

Actually damaging infantry, of course.

Their use as a Zooka platform also struck me as kinda messing with the weapon racks' proposed concept. They're supposed to make USF units feel versatile, but it's obvious the best choice for Zookas are REs by far.

Personally, I think the USF would be best served by

1. Moving 50 Cal to HQ
2. Adding 60 MM Mortar to LT.

This gives the US a similar array of openings to OST and grants another counter to HMGs/Garrisoned troops while at the same time giving you other units to build in the early game instead of just Rifleman X 3-4

Great ideas OP! RE's really need something, they got nerfed way to many times lol. Nerfed the bunkers, nerfed volley... are these guys really only good for sweeping? Of course bunkers in the early game are really strong... but still.

They amount to nothing in the field

Personally, I think the USF would be best served by

1. Moving 50 Cal to HQ
2. Adding 60 MM Mortar to LT.

This gives the US a similar array of openings to OST and grants another counter to HMGs/Garrisoned troops while at the same time giving you other units to build in the early game instead of just Rifleman X 3-4

What exactly would OKW do to counter a starting .50 cal? It would make the Kubel unusable versus USF and the tight hard to flank maps unplayable because OKW doesn't have smoke.

What exactly would OKW do to counter a starting .50 cal? It would make the Kubel unusable versus USF and the tight hard to flank maps unplayable because OKW doesn't have smoke.

That actually makes alot of sense, I would prefer not to have an hmg in the HQ as well.
USF is an atacking glass cannon imo, the only way to move to go as USF is forward. The HMG arrives really late, because you're supposed to rely on riflemen and RE's. RE's are so weak though.

Vs werh you just get forced to spam rifles, you can't go combined arms because werh t1 units arive fast.

I would love better RE's, maby even a faster ambu..

Interesting, I had not thought about the negatives of moving .50cal to HQ (it's been mentioned a ton of times and up until now I figured it was a decent idea). It would be really OP vs OKW.

Like I said before 60mm mortar in HQ would probably just barely do the job and suck for the most part. And it's just awkward.

I'm open to a Willis Jeep type of idea, but that doesn't necessarily help USF with the issues of clearing enemy units out of garrisons. And as has always been the case super early vehicles are REALLY hard to balance - be it soviet clown car, OKW kubel, WC51, or even go back to kangaroo carrier in vCOH. It's a dangerous road.

I still say the changes as I suggested are still the best way to improve both the Rear Echelon squad AND bolster USF early game without being OP. This will help USF with clearing out MGs but also with holding positions.

I really enjoy the role REs fill. They are like ghetto Vcoh Panzgrenadier. IMO the biggest issue with USF is stale army composition, (rifles into Stuart into Sherman into Jackson for example) and restrictive teching.

Giving USF a really shitty light mortar in T0 will be nice vs the new T0 mg42 and maybe even Kubel. Imo the .50 should stay T1 and T1 should just get some kind of reliable AT. (Zook damage buff, M20 price buff, AA autocannon penetration buff, anything.)