The noob factor

I wasn't sure if this was the right section as I am not quite sure if this is balance related or gameplay, possibly more game play related.

A huge problem at least in CoH2 and a huge factor in the low player counter is the imbalance at a low to average player which is the majority. By this I mean, how much easier at this level it is to play axis than it is to play allies.

Personally had not bothered me to much, as I find 1v1/2v2 fairly balanced, the frustration comes from the amount of friends who have quit over this. I watched a friends replay recently 2v2 and I can honestly say they played better but lost, they lost because they didn't completely counter and as mid-late game came they just could't push them back. My friends were dodging grenades and playing in my opinion fairly decently compared to the axis players who just didn't seem to play well at all but they just got completely locked down by mgs and bunkers until eventually the heavy tanks came out. Also if you look at these mgs in buildings, you can smoke and flank the hell out of it but an mg in a building will tank so much damage and just deal out so much and pretty much wipe a squad instantly when it gets the v1 ability whereas if they put an mg in a building it will often just be wiped by a rifle grenade.

Even recently playing with a friend, I could really feel his frustration at just having to deal with a player who was just create a wall of interlocked mgs, more so than this the level of shit talk at this level can be even worse. Although often funny as more often than not when an axis player at this level talks shit, a quick look at his player card will normally reveal almost a complete loss ratio when playing as allies.

It really seems that people join this game, get rolled as allies, either quit or go axis. The only staying as allies being the ones who put in the effort to get good. Which while in my opinion good, the problem stems in that for an average player possibly one who is willing to try and get good, they try out allies and despite asking the forums and trying are beaten by players who play pretty awful but just mg stall into tanks.

Most forums advice being useless, for example just smoke or flank mgs, which with an interlocked mg is never that simple and having to put so much effort into just fighting mgs, completely takes from the momentum which is desperately needed as late game, axis is just so much easier to play as well. As most the heavy tanks and things you need to deal with you need to learn and get good at the game to beat but as a new player joining, they get completely rolled, then will learn some more and still be beaten by worse players leading to them quitting.


Sorry if this is a long rant but the last of my friends who play CoH2 just quit after just an insane mg spam, they smoked, did quite a few good plays but just got recked by mgs, then got shit talked, then looking at the guys player card, guy had not even won a game as allies. Obvious counter to this would be to just play axis but that is often another funny thing how a friend will put some effort into allies and just lose loads yet will try axis with no effort put into learn and will get a better ratio with a higher rank. Again though, the only ones that stay just switch to axis.

1v1/2v2 though I do not think are imbalanced but at this level, axis are just so much more noob friendly just leading to a large amount of players simply quitting. Even then though, at this level axis often seems so boring to play because of this.

Also beyond this axis just have so much more variety in how they can play, which is great, I mean lots of different early game starts, build orders, strategies and due to ost for example being really strong pre commander have much more flexibly in commanders to try things out. For example CAS, you lose a lot of call ins and other things from other commanders but ost being so strong as they are plus this is so strong and honestly I can't even explain the frustration of a new player, playing vs CAS.

Allies on the other hand though, most commanders useless which such a smaller ability to play around with and do different things, also relying so heavy on call ins.

So are you like saying there were bunkers on every point on the map? A replay would help us advise you.

This is very sad to read.

Seems to me you and your friends are not playing Axis like at all. Seems to me your friends could not win a few games and ragequited. If I had this attitude when I started playin Axis at the beginning I would have quit long time ago. Coh is not for the people who have no patience at all in improving. The opponents your friends met, played most probably just with axis and started not for long time to play with allies too. Every new faction you try, will prove hard at the beginning. Don't tell me: you started to play COH2, you played allies and only got beaten, you play axis and you win every time. It sounds like you play just allies and rage because you can't win with them every time.

So are you like saying there were bunkers on every point on the map? A replay would help us advise you.

In that game, the axis pretty much spammed mgs at the start creating a kind of semi circle of interlocked mgs around the map, slowly being replaced by bunkers while the mgs then pushed up with flame engineers. This is counterable don't get me wrong, but for a new player its simply so hard yet so easy to pull of as axis.

Seems to me you and your friends are not playing Axis like at all. Seems to me your friends could not win a few games and ragequited. If I had this attitude when I started playin Axis at the beginning I would have quit long time ago. Coh is not for the people who have no patience at all in improving. The opponents your friends met, played most probably just with axis and started not for long time to play with allies too. Every new faction you try, will prove hard at the beginning. Don't tell me: you started to play COH2, you played allies and only got beaten, you play axis and you win every time. It sounds like you play just allies and rage because you can't win with them every time.

OKW is my favorite and main faction, I play a lot of axis. It's not a case of getting beaten every time as allies or winning every time as axis. A prime example would be a friend with 86 hours, about 80 of that was as allies, he managed a rank of 11,000 whereas about 6 was as axis, his rank as axis being 6000. It's not even a case of rage quitting. Most the time they just simple get bored of playing vs people of equal or less skill and losing while having to put more effort it and lose to such simple play.

Which is not a case of the game being imbalanced merely the learning curve for axis being much simpler.As for the opponents being met, their scorecards normally look like, Allies 7W 32L Axis 22W 12L.

This post is not focused on me though, merely focused on how CoH2 loses a lot of players due to the varying skill curves. Even a quick look at various forums while show the amount of new players who either quit due to this or end up just maining axis.

I don't know man, IMO allies are much more noob friendly because they are more forgiving. The key with them is to be very aggressive early and continuously harass Axis fuel. If you let them sit on fuel then they will snowball.

I don't know man, IMO allies are much more noob friendly because they are more forgiving. The key with them is to be very aggressive early and continuously harass Axis fuel. If you let them sit on fuel then they will snowball.

IMO proactive gameplay is less noob friendly than reactive.

only agree that axis MGs are unbalanced towards U.S.F only, as they dont have anything to get MGs out of buildings or bunkers in T1(like snipers of mortars). And especially if you gambled fuel on smoke nades, which really only help with MGs outside of emplacements, that will set you back big time.

I think the OP has a point and its a problem coh1 had too. When coh2 was launched they tried to tackle the difficulty curve problems by dumbing down gameplay (reducing so called 'hidden knowledge') reducing the impact of elements like cover and damage differentiation at ranges but that made the older fans mad (rightly) and so it was dialed back.

To an early player ost is easier to play because it has less micro tax. Wide angle mg's, generalist infantry and at in your main tech path (unable to choose soviet tier1 without at) followed by generalist tanks. Also being slow out the gate at the start of games (a symptom of inexperienced players) favours ost.

Not sure at this stage in the games life there's much to be done about this although potential upcoming changes to the old factions might help allied ease of play very slightly

Relic holding on to the 4/5 of alpha changes that were supposed to be rolled out this patch is a part of why newer players are having trouble vs call-ins and a-moving elite infantry.

I think the OP has a point and its a problem coh1 had too

To an early player ost is easier to play because it has less micro tax. Wide angle mg's, generalist infantry and at in your main tech path (unable to choose soviet tier1 without at) followed by generalist tanks. Also being slow out the gate at the start of games (a symptom of inexperienced players) favours ost.

Not sure at this stage in the games life there's much to be done about this although potential upcoming changes to the old factions might help allied ease of play very slightly

Not much more to say.

While the game on itself doesn't require insane APM, on the other hand it's not noob friendly.
Not having any MM limitations just also makes things worst.

Seems to me you and your friends are not playing Axis like at all. Seems to me your friends could not win a few games and ragequited. If I had this attitude when I started playin Axis at the beginning I would have quit long time ago. Coh is not for the people who have no patience at all in improving. The opponents your friends met, played most probably just with axis and started not for long time to play with allies too. Every new faction you try, will prove hard at the beginning. Don't tell me: you started to play COH2, you played allies and only got beaten, you play axis and you win every time. It sounds like you play just allies and rage because you can't win with them every time.

Seems to me you don't know the first thing about products and consumers.

A consumers SUBJECTIVE opinion counts more than any objective opinion or reality. The rule in consumer goods (and I am in two of those businesses) is that for every time someone complains there are legions of people who didn't complain... they just walked away and told others the product was garbage without tell YOU.

Here we have a persons opion. OP has posted all of 2 times which means he is not one of the legions of COH fanbois (Allied or Axis). What he says is a complaint. To say that the complaint is invalid is the absolute first wrong answer in customer service.

...Also being slow out the gate at the start of games (a symptom of inexperienced players) favours ost.

Not sure at this stage in the games life there's much to be done about this although potential upcoming changes to the old factions might help allied ease of play very slightly

Slowing down the game progression (I have argued in other threads it just seems to progress through to ALte game much faster than COH1 did) might help some. At least it gives them a few more minutes of what will feel like real gameplay in each match and they might learn a trick or two in those minutes to carry them to the next game.

I still remember the first time I remembered to lay mines in COH1. It was the first real step. Too many of us forget the steps we went through and how hard they were. For me it is easy to remember since I am an old fart and am still learning things others take for granted.

wtf, you dont need heavy tanks to destroy bunkers lol

OP42s are destroying team games at the moment. Hopefully they will get tuned. However, in 1v1s and 2v2s on a lot of maps the balance is a lot better. Other maps you lose automatically against OP42s so veto Minsk and other no-flank maps, Semoisky Winter.

Just play as Axis until things get fixed.

Well COH.org is hosting a mentor program for this summer, so why don't you and your friend sign up? I too have found Allies to be more difficult, and I was terrible with them. I persevered and now I am definitely better and trying to dig myself out of a negative W/L ratio with Soviets.

I will say USF is THE hardest to play faction right now, because their design encourages blobbing riflemen and the buffed Axis MGs crap all over that play. Plus Stugs and PAKs with TWP chew through Shermans. I would start with Soviets go more T2 with team-weapons before trying T1 which requires constant harassment and microing of clown car and snipers.

Map design is huge for a game like Company of Heroes. It is an often hidden and usually overlooked component of how the game plays and feels.

A great deal of frustration results from one strategy being incredibly effective on one map and absolutely useless on others. It's something that can extensively change a player's experience and sense of skill in the game, and it's usually completely ignored.

Combine that with COH2's map design and resource/territory mechanics being a mere shadow of its former self from vCoH, and you have a setting where even the most balanced and dynamic of matchups will feel frustrating and linear.

Well COH.org is hosting a mentor program for this summer, so why don't you and your friend sign up? I too have found Allies to be more difficult, and I was terrible with them. I persevered and now I am definitely better and trying to dig myself out of a negative W/L ratio with Soviets.

I will say USF is THE hardest to play faction right now, because their design encourages blobbing riflemen and the buffed Axis MGs crap all over that play. Plus Stugs and PAKs with TWP chew through Shermans. I would start with Soviets go more T2 with team-weapons before trying T1 which requires constant harassment and microing of clown car and snipers.

Clown car with flamers, sniper >>>>> getting rekt by Walking Stuka or turbo mortar

I know that most people are complaining about MG42 but it really doesn't seem like that big of a deal. On the other hand, the turbo mortar with its crazy fire rate has a tendency to RNG Soviet snipers, which doesn't seem to bother anyone, even though it happened a lot more often than a Soviet mortar killing a Ost sniper (which obviously required a significant buff to be given to the Wehr sniper).

Well COH.org is hosting a mentor program for this summer, so why don't you and your friend sign up? I too have found Allies to be more difficult, and I was terrible with them. I persevered and now I am definitely better and trying to dig myself out of a negative W/L ratio with Soviets.

Highly recommend. +1