Cruzz's The More You Know

So the only useful infantry vet for UKF is Vickers and Vet3 Engies? Everything else degrades or effectively doesn't exist in the first place if you reinforce a 1 man squad.

#VetGate

So the only useful infantry vet for UKF is Vickers and Vet3 Engies? Everything else degrades or effectively doesn't exist in the first place if you reinforce a 1 man squad.

With the fix to scoped enfields in the next pactch, tommies are actually going to be one of the few vet 3 infantry squads that do get an offensive bonus, that is if I understood it right.

All other factions seem way worse off.

Granted a 14% increase to half of the squads dps will be welcome, however this has yet to come to pass.

As I read it the tommy and engy vet is applied on a squad level and so won't last beyond the lives of it's individual members. Happy to be corrected.

What a fucking joke. I guess we know why support weapon spam has been making a comeback, veteran infantry never gets a chance to hurt them.

Ever feel like you are fighting a guy on the backfoot and their infantry just snowballs you off the map? Maybe because their new veterancy is actually working, and now that you lost some models you are fucked.

Curiously enough you just described what only owning the UKF feels like...

Could be wrong of course as I freely admit to being one of the worst coh2 players in known existence.

Updated the first post a bit, consolidated some of my other posts from this thread into it, removed outdated stuff and added some minor extra stuff

New stuff (doesn't include stuff that was in my previous posts even if it wasn't in the first post before):

General mechanics:

Friendly fire damage and damage against enemy units are completely different. Tank guns have 50%, flamers 25%, explosive weapons have 0-10% damage to friendlies except pwerfer @ 25%. For example Brit base howitzer damage to friendlies is a whopping 2.5%, so a direct hit from a howitzer (160*0.025*4) deals as much damage to a full squad as a single hit from a kar98k (16*1).

Damage against heavy cover:
50% damage and 50% accuracy for all weapons not in this list:

Exceptions:
125% damage & 100% accuracy: Infantry flamethrowers (not applied to DOT)
100% damage & 100% accuracy: Heavy Artillery (Rocket Artillery except Calliope & immobile howitzers & Priest & Sexton), Vehicle Flamethrowers, Most offmap attacks, Churchill Crew Grenades, SU-76 barrage, ZIS barrage
50% damage & 100% accuracy: Calliope
100% damage & 50% accuracy: Centaur
50% damage & 90% accuracy: Infrared STG
25% damage & 50% accuracy: Luchs

Damage against Garrisons:

Flamer weapons have 125% damage
Grenades have 100% damage
Small arms have 50% damage and 55% accuracy
Artillery and tank guns have 25% damage.

Exceptions:
LEIG and Pack Howitzers (35% damage), ISU152 (40% damage),
Sherman HE (35% damage), Panzerwerfer (100% damage), Infrared STG (50% damage, 90% accuracy), Centaur (50% damage, 40% accuracy)
Luchs, 251 Flak (25% damage and 40% accuracy)

Weapons which have a notable amount of guaranteed damage to all models in a house due to high aoe far and damage all in hold flag:
Pershing main gun (11),Flame attacks (12-20 damage to everything inside house per burst), Commando/Officer grenade(30), Hammer satchel(50), Guard/Partisan grenade (40 damage), Other grenades(20 damage), Firefly rocket(60), Panzerwerfer(24 damage), Sturmtiger(48), Churchill AVRE(33).

Damage all in hold damage will be applied to every single model inside the structure, in addition to the damage the actual aoe calculation from the weapon does.

Buildings that are on the map at the start (not player built ones) are immune to small_explosive type weapons. All infantry grenades, including Penal Satchels but excluding British Hammer satchel for tommies, fall under this category.

Ability/stats stuff:

USF things:
Easy Eight has no scatter penalty on the move so it will be just as effective against infantry with the main gun standing still as moving

WC51 actually doesn't have a moving accuracy penalty for units inside it, unlike other transports.

OKW things:
For the fatherland
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i have a question concerning building structures.

in vcoh it was really easy to destroy a building which is build up right now. it took huge damage and even when the enemy managed to finish it, it would be pretty low life.

however i have the feeling that this is not the case in coh2. it feels like the building which are inbuild right now are very hard to destroy in comparison to the vcoh game.

i have a question concerning building structures.

in vcoh it was really easy to destroy a building which is build up right now. it took huge damage and even when the enemy managed to finish it, it would be pretty low life.

however i have the feeling that this is not the case in coh2. it feels like the building which are inbuild right now are very hard to destroy in comparison to the vcoh game.

With small arms/nades/light tanks, you are right.
If you throw a satchel, spam mortar, or get atry on building, it's dead pretty quickly.

What shits me the most, is that anti building mortar fire the UKF have, effectively renders ALL ambient buildings useless, as it burns, and after a while the building collapses.

I have a few questions:

1. (if this doesn't take too much time/effort: ) How do different faction HMGs really compare to each other, with respect to:
- DPS (mid-far; near is irrelevant)
- Time-to-suppress
- Time-to-pin
(at vet0/vet3)

2. When pitting a Vickers vs an MG42 (both garrisoned), on mid/far ranges (assuming both start firing at the same time, and no armour piercing rounds for MG42), the Vickers seems to win (albeit barely). Is there any reason for that, or are we just imagining things?

3. (#Vetgate-related): Do Infantry-based bulletins actually apply correctly to squads? (i.e., considering that most of them are tied to offensive ability)

PS: I think that Firefly tulips deals 60 damage per rocket; far-modifier is 1.0 (not 0.25) => A tulip pair instakills garrisons (as demonstrated by Sexwings)

Anyone know the relationship between stored munitions and the number of shells dropped by Scavenger arty?

PS: I think that Firefly tulips deals 60 damage per rocket; far-modifier is 1.0 (not 0.25) => A tulip pair instakills garrisons (as demonstrated by Sexwings)

Yeah, that's correct. I've seen some nice us of that on Kholodny Ferma where Ost garrisoned the mid and northern muni houses a lot. He just used the tulips as instagib abilities, whenever he used a garrison.

Anyone know the relationship between stored munitions and the number of shells dropped by Scavenger arty?

1 additional shell per 75 additional muni, but I believe there is a cap on how many additional shells can fall.

I have a few questions:

1. (if this doesn't take too much time/effort: ) How do different faction HMGs really compare to each other, with respect to:
- DPS (mid-far; near is irrelevant)
- Time-to-suppress
- Time-to-pin
(at vet0/vet3)

Too much effort. Don't even have an accurate calculation for suppression in general, only guesstimates based on testing.

2. When pitting a Vickers vs an MG42 (both garrisoned), on mid/far ranges (assuming both start firing at the same time, and no armour piercing rounds for MG42), the Vickers seems to win (albeit barely). Is there any reason for that, or are we just imagining things?

Vickers has higher DPS between 0 and 41 range, the shorter the range the bigger the difference. Vickers also has better crew guns for ranges 16 to 35. It should win in a garrison at all but the highest range, but there are basically no situations in the game where two MGs will be firing at each other from garrisons at 42+ range so effectively it'll always win.

3. (#Vetgate-related): Do Infantry-based bulletins actually apply correctly to squads? (i.e., considering that most of them are tied to offensive ability)

Bulletins are filter actions, they're constantly being run to check whether they apply or not. So yes they'll work fine.

PS: I think that Firefly tulips deals 60 damage per rocket; far-modifier is 1.0 (not 0.25) => A tulip pair instakills garrisons (as demonstrated by Sexwings)

Correct, I was accidentally applying versus garrison damage twice when generating all the damage in hold values which mostly showed up on the firefly rockets that have a 0.25 damage against garrisons (and on stuff that has such low values of damage I don't bother listing them).

A few general question on suppression, though:
It's not supposed to be relevant if a shot hits or misses. Does that mean every shot fired will actually apply suppression to its target? If that was true, the Vickers should easily be able to suppress on the first burst.
(At far range: 2,75 sec burst * 16*0,9 shots per sec * 0,00785 suppression per shot = ~0,31 suppression in total, versus a suppression threshold of 0,2.)
Is that because cover reduces both received damage and suppression equally? In that case, you'd have roughly 0,187/0,155 suppression per burst in light/heavy cover.

A few general question on suppression, though:
It's not supposed to be relevant if a shot hits or misses.

It matters for AOE suppression which only seems to apply on hit.

Does that mean every shot fired will actually apply suppression to its target? If that was true, the Vickers should easily be able to suppress on the first burst.

Yes suppression on the targeted squad will be applied whether you hit or miss. And vickers does suppress in one burst if target is not in any kind of cover.

Is that because cover reduces both received damage and suppression equally?

Suppression modifiers for cover is 0.1 for green and 0.5 for light cover

Units also regain suppression even when fired upon and this is multiplied in cover. But don't think we have any kind of real formula for how it works.

Thanks a lot!

Cruzz,

Could you take a look at the flame half track and see if there is anything strange with it? I'm finding that it performs nearly as well as the 2013 - KV8 and pre-nerf Croc.

Cruzz,

Could you take a look at the flame half track and see if there is anything strange with it? I'm finding that it performs nearly as well as the 2013 - KV8 and pre-nerf Croc.

From my understanding, all vehicle-mounted flame weapons deal the same amount of damage. The issue with the flame HT is that it carries two such flamethrowers. Thus, double the damage, double the excitement.

From my understanding, all vehicle-mounted flame weapons deal the same amount of damage. The issue with the flame HT is that it carries two such flamethrowers. Thus, double the damage, double the excitement.

Yes and yes. All flame based vehicle weapons were copied to help provide players predictable damage to their squads. FHT just gets 2x the damage, and the vet gives faster speed/acc so it gets there faster to do its work.