Cruzz's The More You Know

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 09:08 AMHannibal

I specifically meant balancing discussions since those in parts often resolve around "unit A is 5-10% stronger than unit B". And if this seems to be the general error margin of Serealia than we can't really judge unless the difference is really big.

I did some tests yesterday, currently working on it. What I can say is that the current formula is 100% not correect, but I need some more testing and modding before I can make a decent statement. Give me maybe 1-2 weeks until I can work it out (if I can at all).

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 20:32 PMPip

Wait, are you saying the DPS calculations for various weapons on Seralia aren't accurate? That's rather unfortunate, I've been looking at it a lot recently to try and gauge some things.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 22:09 PMHannibal

At the moment I can say for sure that the formula is wrong.

However it will still be a decent indication for the time being. But if you want to compare units that are only a couple % apart, then bear in mind that you can't draw any conclusions.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 22:28 PMVipper

grenadier K98
Weapon profile has at range 0 at 5.76 DPS Cereal has it at 5.988
at range 30 2.6 vs 2.6

so they seem pretty close.

But all these is theoretical. One could test in game timing the TTK of modified model of lets say 1600 HP.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 22:59 PMHannibal

True DPS is more between 5-5,3ish though, meaning both 'official' values overestimate it by 10-15%.

Jump back to quoted post10 Mar 2021, 23:01 PMVipper

When you say "true" you mean from in game testing?

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 09:51 AMHannibal

From a model that I made after in game testing and modding rifle stats.
I also made a test with the live Gren K98 and it seems to work well. To be fair though I so far focused on getting the timings right, I have not checked for the actual damage and assumed those are correct so far. That formula is in line though with what we see from all other weapons in the game.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:27 PMZeroZeroNi

Can anyone tell me how to extract info from the game it self. Then even I could just make an app that gives you more accurate dps graphs.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:27 PMZeroZeroNi

Can anyone tell me how to extract info from the game it self. Then even I could just make an app that gives you more accurate dps graphs.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:31 PMKatitof

Download mod tools through steam, you can preview all stats in attribute editor there.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:32 PMZeroZeroNi

That's what I use now.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:34 PMVipper

https://www.coh2.org/guides/11637/extracting-statistics-guide

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:32 PMHannibal

Do you mean replay files?

To be honest, no idea about that. But I also doubt that it is possible. As far as I know (I don't have much knowledge about replay files though), no unit positions are saved. So even if you'd get some info on HP decline, there is no way to get the range.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 14:02 PMZeroZeroNi

I didn't mean replay files. But I guess that would be very accurate. I doubt relic would let the extraction of their proprietary play back format even though it's probably a unit positions along with at what frame or however in game time is calculated is attached to it.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 13:32 PMZeroZeroNi

That's what I use now.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 14:08 PMHannibal

Some people extract info like victory points and wins etc from those files. As far as I know it is mostly a file containing orders, and the game then simulates what is happening if you watch a replay.

As weird as it sounds, the stats themselves are somewhat inaccurate. As I said, give me a week or two to work out the model properly, I'll then publish it for criticism.

Jump back to quoted post11 Mar 2021, 14:14 PMZeroZeroNi

That wouldn't work with on map arty or even basic engagements where hits can become rng and not kill/kill unit that it isn't supposed to.

Jump back to quoted post22 Apr 2021, 23:22 PMLewka

I'm not sure how this chart can be proven that bulletins work for other units that they say they don't without the devs confirming. The only bulletins I know that I am 100% certain work for other units are panzerfaust bulletins which work for Osttruppen, because you can actually see the reduced cost of the panzerfaust for them. Also IMO that bulletin isn't even very good because the cost is only reduced by 1 munition

Jump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 04:22 AMelchino7

You better quote who you were talking to and you might as well check the date they commented as well.

We know which bulletins works for each unit cause when you go to the modding tools or extract the data you can see what type of unit they are. Unfortunately i think the only site which had bulletins information died.

Jump back to quoted post23 Apr 2021, 08:58 AMLewka

Oh well I was speaking with Vertigo who is a much higher ranking player than me and he said it can't be proven when I showed him this. We discussed this sometime last year on Steam. But if you, a moderator, are confirming they are correct then I would go with what you're saying as the truth. My apologies for doubting it, but I appreciate being informed nonetheless. Usually the responses I get are 'they don't do anything' or in this case 'it can't be proven' but I know they have some impact on the game just not a big impact. I remember when you could stack 3 of the same bulletin. Good times lol, I can see why they removed that though.