Cruzz's The More You Know

I've been wondering how to properly calculate the AoE damage of a weapon

If I have this correctly, it depends on:
- The base damage of the weapon
- the AoE radius
- The AoE distance profile (Near/Mid/Far)
- The AoE damage multiplier (Near/Mid/Far)

Let's assume that we have a weapon with:
- Base damage = 80
- AoE radius = 6
- AoE distance profile: 1.5/3.0/4.5
- AoE damage multiplier 1/0.5/0.3

Is the following way the correct way to calculate damage?

If the distance from impact is:
- Between 0 and 1.5 (near distance): damage = 80 (base damage; no modifier)
- Between 1.5 and 3: damage = 80 * 1 (near-distance profile) = 80
- Between 3 and 4.5: damage = 80 * 0.5 (mid-distance profile) = 40
- Between 4.5 and 6: damage = 80 * 0.3 (far-distance profile) = 24

(I used to think that the AoE would deal no damage further than the AoE far distance value. However, the AEC debacle proved me wrong - the patch only touched the radius; not the distance profiles)

I've been wondering how to properly calculate the AoE damage of a weapon

Granatwerfer 34 81mm Mortar, grw34_81mm_mortar_mp.xml
80 damage
AoE radius: 4.0
AoE far: 3.0
AoE mid: 2.0
AoE near: 1.0

would do:
80 damage to distance 0-1
28 damage to distance 2
4 damage to distance 3-4

with linear reduction in between 1-2 2-3

Is the following way the correct way to calculate damage?

If the distance from impact is:
- Between 0 and 1.5 (near distance): damage = 80 (base damage; no modifier)
- Between 1.5 and 3: damage = 80 * 1 (near-distance profile) = 80
- Between 3 and 4.5: damage = 80 * 0.5 (mid-distance profile) = 40
- Between 4.5 and 6: damage = 80 * 0.3 (far-distance profile) = 24

(I used to think that the AoE would deal no damage further than the AoE far distance value. However, the AEC debacle proved me wrong - the patch only touched the radius; not the distance profiles)

Multipliers will be adjusted linearly as distance changes. In your example, the damage multiplier at range 3.5 would be:

(0.5-(0.5-0.3)*(3.5-3)/(4.5-3)) = 0.4333

Damage between far distance and the radius, and 0 and near distance are constants.

Actual damage calculations will still need cover multipliers added onto them.

Then there's the massively overengineered garrisonable building damage question which I don't have a clue how to calculate, so many things to take into account.

Thanks @Myself, Cruzz,

That perfectly answers my question. Also explains why there are only 3 damage modifiers, even though there appeared to be 4 zones in total.

I guess I have a few posts to amend now!

Edit: Regarding the AEC, it seems that not only did it get a constant, decent 24 damage for the far zone. The middle distance modifier was also buffed; This means that the insta-kill radius has also (very slightly) increased.

My main point is it makes no sense the way they made it. That is ppor design IMO.



Didn't the Assault Guards PPSH get buffed or ninja-buffed recently?

here's a crazy thought (and it's way more complicated than it should be, but bear with me).

you have weapon types... SMG, bolt action rifle, semi-auto rifle, sniper rifle, etc. each troop type gets accuracy with each given weapon type at near/mid/far, so a paratrooper would always be better with an SMG than a RE.

rate of fire and damage at each range would be weapon based.

it would certainly overly complicate things, but it would also allow weapons picked up to provide realistic bonuses the squad using it... so you'd always want to pick up advanced weapons with troops that could actually make use of it.

I just came up with a few extra questions regarding weapon DPS.

1. What is the effect of ready_aim_time on DPS?

The only difference between vickers_k and Tommy Bren is, literally, max ready_aim_time (vickers_k has 0.5, Bren has 1)

2. How do you calculate small arms DPS (if you have a formula that takes into account aiming times, it's ace)

To make the formula simpler, you can assume a fixed distance to the target (I could calculate rate_of_fire/accuracy/etc for a particular distance)

3. (I can answer this question for myself if you provide a detailed enough formula for #2). I see that submachineguns, commando Bren, Ober mg34 etc have a moving cooldown multiplier which is < 1. Does this mean that the DPS of these units actually INCREASES while on the move (or at least offsets the lower accuracy)?

(edited to add)
4. You mentioned that commandos get a better version of the Bren when buying it from the weapon racks. In a previous post you also mentioned that if a Commando/Sapper drops the Bren, it becomes a Tommy Bren

What happens if a Commando picks up a dropped Bren weapon from the ground?

I just came up with a few extra questions regarding weapon DPS.
1. What is the effect of ready_aim_time on DPS?
The only difference between vickers_k and Tommy Bren is, literally, max ready_aim_time (vickers_k has 0.5, Bren has 1)
2. How do you calculate small arms DPS (if you have a formula that takes into account aiming times, it's ace)
To make the formula simpler, you can assume a fixed distance to the target (I could calculate rate_of_fire/accuracy/etc for a particular distance)
3. (I can answer this question for myself if you provide a detailed enough formula for #2). I see that submachineguns, commando Bren, Ober mg34 etc have a moving cooldown multiplier which is < 1. Does this mean that the DPS of these units actually INCREASES while on the move (or at least offsets the lower accuracy)?

elchino7
DPS being calculated as:" Damage x Accuracy x (Shots per burst x Shots fired before reload / Total time to shoot including reload)
Total time to shoot including reload = ((Shoot burst duration + Fire aim time + Wind up + Wind down)*Shots fire before reload) + (Cooldown duration * Reload frequency) + (Reload duration)"

ready_aim_time is the time before firing on a new target if I remember correctly...

DPS calculation for all weapon can be generated easily by the editor

Yes there are weapons that are meant to be good at firing on the move. (mostly SMGs)

I just came up with a few extra questions regarding weapon DPS.

1. What is the effect of ready_aim_time on DPS?

Ready aim is used for the first time you fire at something after switching targets. Fire aim is used for other rounds.

2. How do you calculate small arms DPS (if you have a formula that takes into account aiming times, it's ace)

You can get the formula relic claims to use by outputting weapon stats in the attribute editor. My own calculation might be a bit unorthodox, but here it is anyway (stuff in parentheses will affect the value):

Total damage:
accuracy(incremental, range, target_size, moving, cover)*damage(cover)*penetration(range, armor)*burst bullets(range, moving)*(1+reload frequency)
Burst bullets:
1 if single fire, otherwise
Burst duration(range, moving)*rate of fire(range)

Time required:
(wind up+fire aim(range)+burst duration(range, moving)+wind down+cooldown(range, moving))*(1+reload frequency)
- cooldown(range, moving) - fire aim(range) + ready aim(range) + reload duration(range)

DPS: total damage/time required

Accuracy, penetration chance are capped at 1. Burst duration for non burst weapons is 0.125 (this game generally operates on 8 ticks a second, any amount of time is rounded to the closest 0.125). You will have to adjust rate of fire, burst duration, accuracy, cooldown and reload duration all with range. The one -cooldown is because there won't be a cooldown after the last burst before a reload.

3. (I can answer this question for myself if you provide a detailed enough formula for #2). I see that submachineguns, commando Bren, Ober mg34 etc have a moving cooldown multiplier which is < 1. Does this mean that the DPS of these units actually INCREASES while on the move (or at least offsets the lower accuracy)?

They'll have shorter delays between bursts than standing still but to this day the only weapon that has had stats which made it about as good while on the move as standing still has been the shock ppsh.

4. You mentioned that commandos get a better version of the Bren when buying it from the weapon racks. In a previous post you also mentioned that if a Commando/Sapper drops the Bren, it becomes a Tommy Bren

What happens if a Commando picks up a dropped Bren weapon from the ground?

The version picked off the ground is always the tommy one. So even if a commando squad picks up a Bren they just dropped a second ago, it'll be the much weaker tommy version.

I see. It all makes perfect sense!

Btw, just to clarify something about ready aim.

Ready aim is used for the first time you fire at something after switching targets. Fire aim is used for other rounds.

If there are two enemy squads, and you switch target (e.g., right-clicking) from one squad to the other, ready_aim time will kick in.

However, what happens when you only focus your fire on only one squad, and a model from that squad dies? Does aiming at another model from the same squad also count as "switching targets" (and thus, gets the ready aim penalty), or not?

However, what happens when you only focus your fire on only one squad, and a model from that squad dies? Does aiming at another model from the same squad also count as "switching targets" (and thus, gets the ready aim penalty), or not?

No, it's only when switching to a different squad.

Is the OSTWIND accuracy based now?


It seems extremely potent against the SU (High received accuracy), while not doing jack shit against the brits.

Is the OSTWIND accuracy based now?


It seems extremely potent against the SU (High received accuracy), while not doing jack shit against the brits.

Its quite obvious its scatter based.

For stat lovers: If accuracy is 0.0X its scatter vs inf if accuracy is 0.XX its accuracy based vs inf.

For scrubs: If it can miss any vehicle, its scatter vs inf.

Its potent vs SU, because they have bigger squads, therefore higher possibility to hit.

The term AOE damage or even "splash damage" is more commonly used to describe damage that comes from non direct hits.

Actually, AOE to scatter ratio substitutes accuracy for these types of weapons...

Explosives weapons use AOE damage and do not use accuracy at all so they can not actually score a "hit"

Ballistic weapons such as Ostwind have a very small chance to hit targets with size 1, can not scatter and collide with infantry models and so do most damage similar to explosives weapons via AOE damage...

The ostwind firing on a conscripts has according to Relic DPS via hit at range 10/20/30/40
ostwind_flak_43_37mm_mp 1.24 1.06 0.87 0.69

The ostwind firing on a riflemen has according to Relic DPS via hit at range 10/20/30/40
ostwind_flak_43_37mm_mp 1.11 0.94 0.78 0.61

of course it actually more due to AOE damage

If one would talk about scatter "hits" that would be ballistic weapons vs vehicles when the projectile misses its target it can still score hit because its scatters and collides with the vehicle, but calling that a hit via collision is more accurate...

The reasons I asked this was because Cruzz said the OKW Flaks now are accuracy based.

The reasons I asked this was because Cruzz said the OKW Flaks now are accuracy based.

Because they are, just like bofors.
Their current accuracy only reflects what I've said earlier.

@Katitof: manners matter.
@Myself: stop with the crusade. It's getting annoying.

Both Ostwind (IIRC OKW uses OH weapon) have 0.0x accuracy so they rely on scatter (aoe).

The P2 and the Flak HT now have 0.x accuracy values.

Thanks for the explanations.

Can we please not fill this wonderful thread with unnecessary troll/rageboi/flame/nonconstructive/negative posts?

I WANT TO LEARN ABOUT THE GAME NOT READ YOUR DAMN WHINY COMMENTS