Ostheer HMG too strong now

I don't mind the hmg buff, it was kinda needed i guess.
But they already buffed the hmg42 a patch ago when giving it more acc and buffing Pio sight range.
Now the hmg42 has gotten another buff, it's fine in 1 vs 1 but not on most maps in teamgames.

I wonder if people realize werh now has the best sniper in t1, the best hmg in t1 and the best mortar in t1.

I learned as USF you have to tech to nades early game and go m20, you can win the engagement early game. Then when the scout care arrives (which got a buff btw guys the patch before) you have to tech to AA HT because it counters the m20. You can push werh back again, if there is not a pak or a vet 1 HMG. All the while spending all your fuel on teching, all the ammo om nades and smoke. Then you get a delayed sherman out vs werh's buffed stug. I like how werh and USA is now balanced in the early game, glad they have the same strenght in late game as well... Oh wait, they don't MVGame.

the hmg42 buff gives werh the option to skip light vehicles, like the pak let werh skip t3&4 and just stall to tiger before the pak got nerfed. Again it's fine in 1s, in teamgames not so much.

I wonder if people realize werh now has the best sniper in t1, the best hmg in t1 and the best mortar in t1.

Now all we need is cheaper Ostheer tech and the game will be finally balanced.

The Ostheer sniper will continue to be under used as long as Ostheer is starved for MP.

The Ostheer sniper will continue to be under used as long as Ostheer is starved for MP.

The Ostheer sniper is not underused since the buff. I have no idea how you would reach that conclusion.

The Ostheer sniper is not underused since the buff. I have no idea how you would reach that conclusion.

I can count the amount of times Iv had it used against me since the last patch on 1 hand. I mean it's used, but not as much as it should be considering it's effectiveness.

A better way to phrase what I mean might be that the Snipers high cost makes it a hard sell when Allied counters such as light vehicles hit the field very, very early which can be hell for an average player to deal with if they went with a sniper build.

Remember snares don't work against full health vehicles now; so it's not hard to rush past a gren squad to get at a sniper.

The Ostheer sniper will continue to be under used as long as Ostheer is starved for MP.

I have gone sniper then double MG first every game as ostheer this patch in 2v2.

13-1 so far.

ostheer is not underpowered At ALL anymore in ANY way. They are to be UN TOUCHED.
The next axis fanboy that asks for even the slightest buff to any ostheer unit or even tech will incur my wrath.

EVERY THING ABOUT ostheer is perfect now. The only thing they don't have is elite infantry(who needs that when you have LMG grens) and a 60 range TD(but who needs that when you have a Pak 40)
I initially thought the 85 call in being untouched was a bad thing.."ostheer still screwed"..but nope just build 2 stug and a Pak and watch both 85s evaporate. Obviously 1 IS2 isn't muc to worry about either.

I could write a 20 page memo bragging about how lovely ostheer is now.

Give the ostheer buff crusade a rest.

I don't mind the hmg buff, it was kinda needed i guess.
But they already buffed the hmg42 a patch ago when giving it more acc and buffing Pio sight range.
Now the hmg42 has gotten another buff, it's fine in 1 vs 1 but not on most maps in teamgames.

I wonder if people realize werh now has the best sniper in t1, the best hmg in t1 and the best mortar in t1.

I learned as USF you have to tech to nades early game and go m20, you can win the engagement early game. Then when the scout care arrives (which got a buff btw guys the patch before) you have to tech to AA HT because it counters the m20. You can push werh back again, if there is not a pak or a vet 1 HMG. All the while spending all your fuel on teching, all the ammo om nades and smoke. Then you get a delayed sherman out vs werh's buffed stug. I like how werh and USA is now balanced in the early game, glad they have the same strenght in late game as well... Oh wait, they don't MVGame.

the hmg42 buff gives werh the option to skip light vehicles, like the pak let werh skip t3&4 and just stall to tiger before the pak got nerfed. Again it's fine in 1s, in teamgames not so much.

Yes the MG42 needed the buff, but it was the .50 Cal that really needed it. OST Grens can still rifle grenade it and kill the crew while being suppressed. It would be nice if the .50's sprint ability was replaced with AP rounds allowing it to soft counter light vehicles from OST and OKW. Being able for a team to lug around a weapon and tripod that weights 127.87 lbs / 58Kgs is stupid let alone sprint with it.

The fact that OST can farm PAKs and attack move them with their hordes of grens with MG42 support and effectively drive off USF armor or destroy it continues to anger me ( you don't see USF AT guns A moving to kill Axis armor..... why because they suck at penetrating the Axis Tank Armor) Axis players can get away with so much and not be punished for it compared to USF. As Looney stated the utility of the MG42 and PAK allows OST players to bypass tier 3 or 4 completely while the USF is forced into attempting to rush quickly to Tier 3 to pump out a tracked vehicle. Hell I would like to rant about the Pfraust and USF AT Grenade. Pfraust no minimal range while the rifles have a minimal range to through the grenade so SC scout car and run up into the rifles around a corner and they can't even snare it.

The Pros of the current patch is now hopefully USF players will go T1 and then T2 and then latter T3 forcing a combined arms of USF granted this increases micro and force management becomes extremely high and taxing which some USF players have never experienced since the USF meta was pretty much T1 into T3 for a fast Sherman mainly.

I'm not a fan of USF grenades probably because I suck with them but still MP and fuel invested onto something that is a constant Muni drain that can be negated by the Axis player repositioning the MG or dodging the pineapple.... heresss the wind wind up annnd throw once again compare it to the German Rifle grenade where you best counter measure is quickly responding to the audio cue of rifles saying grenade and moving squads. Also you can using them against vehicles but the vehicle can just back away from the smoke and can fire again it would be funny if the smoke grenade got lodging onto the vehicle completely blinding it along with masking it USF units.

The disparity in units in a couple of units and teching is just silly. I still enjoy playing as OST and the flexible in my builds due to the utility found each tier and how they are augmented by call ins while when compared to the USF its painful.

Stuff

Ostheer is a lot easier to play than OKW because it has all the tools it needs to deal with what every is thrown at it; but Ostheer teching being to expensive MP wise Is a Thing That Needs Fixing.

Not talking about "buffs" to any particular unit, just saying BP's should be 100 MP instead of 200. Catch my drift?

I have gone sniper then double MG first every game as ostheer this patch in 2v2.

13-1 so far.

ostheer is not underpowered At ALL anymore in ANY way. They are to be UN TOUCHED.
The next axis fanboy that asks for even the slightest buff to any ostheer unit or even tech will incur my wrath.

EVERY THING ABOUT ostheer is perfect now. The only thing they don't have is elite infantry(who needs that when you have LMG grens) and a 60 range TD(but who needs that when you have a Pak 40)
I initially thought the 85 call in being untouched was a bad thing.."ostheer still screwed"..but nope just build 2 stug and a Pak and watch both 85s evaporate. Obviously 1 IS2 isn't muc to worry about either.

I could write a 20 page memo bragging about how lovely ostheer is now.

Give the ostheer buff crusade a rest.

Agreed.

OST Sniper with the new MG 42 is devastating.

It is very hard to deal with. A conservative OST player with the sniper in the over watch of a MG and Grens just shuts down the early game of USF hard. At least in VCOH you had a 220 MP jeep that could deal with him, now USF don't have jack to deal with him besides outplaying the OST and get lucky on a flank and chasing him down the retreat path in hopes of wiping the sniper. That flank is completely negated now with the buff to the MG42s.

Lets throw in the health buff for the sniper, grens with snare ability, pios with vision ability and now the MG42s suppressing value. Synchronize and have them providing each other mutual support... good luck early game USF. Only hope is to get a quick M20 which is then hard countered by and OST SC and the USF windows for success are rapidly closed and the USF must fight up slippery slope if they continue to stay in the match.

The reason you don't a Sniper every game is because its very taxing in mirco and force management.... so some players opt not to build one and just build grens and mgs because they are not as micro intensive as a sniper let alone the 340 MP that can be wasted because they were not paying attention or where stupid in the the employment of the sniper.

Look at all these whiners talking how they can't kill an MG. It's a joke, everyone was crying about blob-to-win; allies infantry can just smoke it/orrah past MG like no man land, and then now MG is being useful and they think it's invincible.

Ostheer is a lot easier to play than OKW because it has all the tools it needs to deal with what every is thrown at it; but Ostheer teching being to expensive MP wise Is a Thing That Needs Fixing.

Not talking about "buffs" to any particular unit, just saying BP's should be 100 MP instead of 200. Catch my drift?

no...no it doesnt need to be fixed at all...

T4 is not unaccessible in 2v2+,and T3 is so good 1v1 now why would you even need T4,unless the game drags on which in that case you CAN go T4 in 1v1.

making battle phases 100 mp would break the game. the 222 would then come out before the M20. the STUG would come E V E N E A R L I E R™

The only thing stopping ostheer from basepinning USF in the first 5 mins is the fact that they have to prepare for LT tech vehicles with tech costs.

The next axis fanboy that asks for even the slightest buff to any ostheer unit or even tech will incur my wrath.

Ostheer desperately needs a buff!

no...no it doesnt need to be fixed at all...

T4 is not unaccessible in 2v2+,and T3 is so good 1v1 now why would you even need T4,unless the game drags on which in that case you CAN go T4 in 1v1.

making battle phases 100 mp would break the game. the 222 would then come out before the M20. the STUG would come E V E N E A R L I E R™

The only thing stopping ostheer from basepinning USF in the first 5 mins is the fact that they have to prepare for LT tech vehicles with tech costs.

An entire tier being unaccessible in 2v2 and 1v1 doesn't seem broken to you? Like would USF not being able to go Major in 1v1 or 2v2 be acceptable? What about Soviets? I would be more than happy with T3 costing more and T4 costing more less.

BP's being 100 mp wouldn't magically give Ostheer the fuel it needs to rush, it would just mean Ostheer isn't constantly at a huge MP disadvantage compared to other factions.

Tier 4 is unaccessible in 2v2? Guess i need to stop using t4, lol.

Highter tech cost only influence timing of units, nothing more. Want tech cost less? How about giving panther popcap of heavy tank?

The next axis fanboy that asks for even the slightest buff to any ostheer unit or even tech will incur my wrath.

LefH 18 & Peewerfer

I can count the amount of times Iv had it used against me since the last patch on 1 hand. I mean it's used, but not as much as it should be considering it's effectiveness.

A better way to phrase what I mean might be that the Snipers high cost makes it a hard sell when Allied counters such as light vehicles hit the field very, very early which can be hell for an average player to deal with if they went with a sniper build.

Remember snares don't work against full health vehicles now; so it's not hard to rush past a gren squad to get at a sniper.

You can see if a soviet player made T1 through the FoW. Against USF, you have to play a little bit safer once the game hits the 5 minute mark to see if you don't get m20 rushed.

Snares work just fine on light vehicles. The only vehicles with more than 400hp will not get snared by a single panzerfaust.

An entire tier being unaccessible in 2v2 and 1v1 doesn't seem broken to you? Like would USF not being able to go Major in 1v1 or 2v2 be acceptable? What about Soviets? I would be more than happy with T3 costing more and T4 costing more less.

BP's being 100 mp wouldn't magically give Ostheer the fuel it needs to rush, it would just mean Ostheer isn't constantly at a huge MP disadvantage compared to other factions.

Ostheer BPs are not that expensive once you consider that LMGs, rifle grenades, panzerschreks and Panzerfaust are already included.

If a soviet player wants upgrades conscripts, a sniper and an AT gun, the manpower required for tech is 250 for the conscripts, 160 for the sniper and another 160 for the AT gun. Compared to the Ostheers flat 400mp investment, and that includes more units, more unit upgrades, and units that are individually superior to their soviet counter parts.

In later tech, Ostheer has solid AT and AI in their tank tiers compared to soviets, who have AI focus in one and AT focus in another. Ostheer also has the heaviest non-doctrinal units in the game bar the OKW KT.

With Ostheer you have a huge variety of viable units for a relatively cheap tech price. The only downside is that you HAVE to purchase BPs in a strict order, and can't, say, skip infantry upgrades in favor of a faster tank. You CAN'T just make Ostheer tech cheaper and expect it to be balanced.

LefH 18 & Peewerfer

Not to say those shouldnt be buffed eventually but really?

What else should ostheer have thats the best of its kind in the game?Can they somewhat lack artillery? Thats the one thing they dont have thats the best ingame.. And obviously if their opponent builds artillery then they can just counter that with stuka dive bombs or stuka CAS.

Clearly ,the ostheer QQ wont stop still ostheer is #masterrace all around with every unit being better than its counterpart. They cant lack in any department,and are the only faction that can be that way.

I think the HMG's are where they should be now. The problem i see is that people aren't used to flanking or have trouble keeping the flank, because its easy to make a small micro mistakes and you are forced back with nothing gained. I totally understand why people get frustrated, but to play vs a good player that has good MG micro, is gonna take alot of patience and micro to beat. But hard games like that, give more pleasure than frustrating moments when you can't hold your ground because your mg doesnt do shi#.

I think it's more rewarding to flank the mg and to succeed, than to just run in with a blob and run over a crowdcontrol unit.

And I love how Soviets are right now. The only thing that keeps Soviets the strongest faction is there call ins. I just can't understand why Relic didn't just nerf Conscripts so they get forced to tech and delay there call ins.

There stock army is the weakest in the game.
T1? Snipers got nerfed, Penals? wtf are Penals. The only reason you would go T1 is to get a scout car that's viable 5 minutes in the game. And T2? Werh mortar -> Soviet mortar, Werh HMG -> Soviet maxim, Werh Sniper -> Soviet sniper, Werh AT gun -> Soviet AT gun.

Relic once again overbuffed, overnerfed and tried to change the whole game around call ins, which still is a problem. Ostheer was fine, it just needed less teching cost. Same with the USA vs Werh match up. Lower werh teching, LT needed to be more expensive, while the captain needed to be cheaper. I just don't understand Relic wants to drasticly change there game, all that real life money spend on devs making new patches while it could be solved with simple tweaks.

After being playing around 10-15 games, I think the HMG42 is too strong effectively vs USF.

-1) HMG42 240mp hard counter 280mp rifles. Since USF doesn't have any other starting unit to fight, HMG42 is simply the best tool to shutdown USF early game. In a map like semoisky, I have see 3 MG start, garrisoning each key building in the center and holding all the game long.

-2) HMG42 vet1 hard counter the entire USF tiers 1. It is also something important to highlight, since the HMG have been buffed, it is easier to get it vetted. M20 and Half-track are simply hard countered if they enter the HMG arc of fire.
Why hard counter and not soft counter, because it kills any light vehicle in 1 burst making the arc of fire (very large one) also an area of denial for anything USF can field from T1. Last but not least, it kills it faster than a pack.

To counter it, USF doesn't have a lot of options, flanking + smoke or going T2 pack howi or going Doctrinal mortar cp2.

One requires a lot of micro and rapid decision making for a non guarantied result:
-Smoke is a double edge sword + you need the munition
-Pioneers have extra vision and can detect you before you start your attack, HMG can be repositioned before it.
-You are attacking and so going to bleed hard, success or not.
-Retreating from a unsuccessful flank is, in many time, equal to losing lot more model, if you try a real big flank and it doesn't work, your units behind the line are simply going to be mince meat for the MG.
This is why it requires a rapid decision making, retreating in time to not bleed too hard if it fail.

Pack Howi is simply too late and to expensive for what it delivers.

Mobile mortar comes with a good overall doctrine. But it requires you to invest 40 fuel and will be shut down by a fast 251. In addition USF player must plant m7 mines to cover it.

The HMG42 isn't too strong by itself. but also because it scale so well with T1 other support weapons. HMG42 + mortar is simply bestial with Pioneer to give sigh, you can take ground little by little.
HMG42 + sniper is probably also really strong. I haven't face it yet but since USF can't do shit vs sniper in first hand, sniper + HMG is going to rampage. Once the HMG is vet1 it can cover it from any USF T1 unit.
HMG42 + gren is more potent, vet1 + faust and USF T1 is shutdown.

There are many people around that forum talking about learning to flank. This is exact, the problem is learning requires some kind of will (to learn) and a learning progression visible. The change has been really brutal, not sure if the usual USF "blobbers" will be interesting in learning anything from that.
Why am I saying that, simply because there is a new no-brain blobby faction now: Ostheer. 2MG start + grenspam, you can blob all you want and get HMG to cover your ass.

Solutions are probably one sided.
USF cannot be change that much or it will impact USF/OKW matchup. Adding or moving mortar/pack to T0/unlock is probably the only solution USF side.
Ostheer can be tone down in some other areas now. increasing the HMG price to 280-300 is imo the best change to bring, this price is fair in regard to its capabilities, it will make the unit less spammable and bring slowdown OStheer BO and tiering.

Learn to use smoke + closing in with rifles correctly.

If the HMG is activated with AProunds, wait for it to end. Then start harrasing with AAHalftrack/M20. End.