Stug G vs. Soviet and Allied armor

Your thinking to hard about it, my original point was just that the StuG III isn't exactly the most durable thing out there

As durable as any other TD with exception of ele, SU-76, JT and jackson.

and the fact at it's counters hit the field before it does (AT guns) means that it won't be OP because the opposing player will have a counter to it.

Same line was used when JT and ele was at its OP prime.
Jackson is still extremely vulnerable to ATGs and people still cry OP for some reason.

"Glass Cannon" typically refers to something that is geared towards putting out a lot of punishment while not being able to take much itself due to various factors such as poor durability or risky nature of use, the Jackson and StuG III are an example of this.

T-70 is glass cannon.
USF, OKW and now sov AA HTs are glass cannons.
KV-2 is glass cannon(compared to other units of its tier).
Pack Howi is glass cannon.

StuG is as durable as any other medium tank and takes exactly the same 4 shots any other medium vehicle does, the only things its not as durable against as any other medium are:

-Pshrecks
-Bazooka
-PTRS
-M-42 AT gun
-SU-76
Where it takes ONE shot less to be destroyed(except PTRS, where its 2 shots).
Against literally any other weapon in game-its as durable as any other medium vehicle.

It's not as durable as an SU-85 or a JPIV. It doesn't have the mobility of the Jackson. Of course it shouldn't because it's only 90 fuel.

The closest thing to the StuG III role wise is the M10.

Same line was used when JT and ele was at its OP prime.

What are the counters for the JT or Elefant other than flanking?

We have played with the changes already. It was a tiny bit stronger in alpha, but it also got cost increase.
With its survivability and pen going up and cost staying on current level, it becomes most cost effective TD in game, unless you believe 10 range less then 60 to be worth 35-45 fuel and much bigger menpower price(jackson, SU-85, JP4).

I'm not saying it will be OP, but there is quite high chance for that, given fastest vet speed and best vet1 ability in game a TD could have.

Cost did increase though. 230/80--> 280/90

Soviet players already crying about the Stug being OP before the patch has even released

Soviet players already crying about the Stug being OP before the patch has even released

And what about USF players? The Stug G will now hard counter Shermans with its high ROF, forcing 1-2 Jacksons on the field. In the alpha, the Stug G was increased to 95 fu to compensate for its increased power. This has not happened in the live build for whatever reason. I'm not saying that the Stug G is OP, but its timing and cost effectiveness is questionable at it current cost.

You cannot call a unit balanced because it is fighting OP units from one faction. Would it be fair if the maxim had been buffed to have the same DPS as lmg obers and 70 range instead of nerfing lmg obers? Of course not, that would be retarded. One unit being OP does not mean that its counter should be overbuffed to counter it. That would cause the other faction (ostheer in the example, USF vs. the Stug G) to have a much harder time for no good reason.

And what about USF players? The Stug G will now hard counter Shermans with its high ROF, forcing 1-2 Jacksons on the field. In the alpha, the Stug G was increased to 95 fu to compensate for its increased power. This has not happened in the live build for whatever reason. I'm not saying that the Stug G is OP, but its timing and cost effectiveness is questionable at it current cost.

Except the USF AT gun will works excellent against it because of it's low armor. And remember that Ostheer teching in the alpha was cheaper to and USF teching was much more expensive meaning that Shermans came way after StuG III's hit the field.

With the current teching prices the StuG III will hit the field after it's counters do.

EDIT: And they increased the price of the StuG to 90 fuel.

Except the USF AT gun will works excellent against it because of it's low armor. And remember that Ostheer teching in the alpha was cheaper to and USF teching was much more expensive meaning that Shermans came way after StuG III's hit the field.

With the current teching prices the StuG III will hit the field after it's counters do.

EDIT: And they increased the price of the StuG to 90 fuel.

The USF AT gun is one thing, the Stug is quite another. The USF AT gun requires you to go captain tier, which will delay your Sherman, and give you less early map control (both of which USF clutches heavily on). There is no reason for a unit that costs 80 fu to counter one factions lategame. USF has nothing better than Shermans for assaulting lategame, and rely heavily on Shermans to counter axis lategame infantry (grens scale much better in terms of vet and weapon upgrades).

Stug needs a price increase. The reason the price was increased in the alpha was because too many could be fielded too quickly, they could vet incredibly quickly, and because they were too cost effective. The SU76 at 5 fu less, gives you 40 less damage (thats a huge deal), 10 more pen at close I believe, less HP, less armor, a free barrage, no weapon traverse, and a much worse vet 1 ability. A stug can bounce shells from all allied mediums (including /85) while penning all 100% (with the exception of the e8). A stug also takes as many hits to kill as a medium does.

Does it not seem too effective at 80fu to you?

And what about USF players? The Stug G will now hard counter Shermans with its high ROF, forcing 1-2 Jacksons on the field. In the alpha, the Stug G was increased to 95 fu to compensate for its increased power. This has not happened in the live build for whatever reason. I'm not saying that the Stug G is OP, but its timing and cost effectiveness is questionable at it current cost.

Now it´s 90 fuel, 50 range. In the Alpha it also had 55 range with the 95 fuel. I would gladly pay 5 fuel more for 5 more range.

If at all it has been made less cost effective than in the Alpha.

Now it´s 90 fuel, 50 range. In the Alpha it also had 55 range with the 95 fuel. I would gladly pay 5 fuel more for 5 more range.

If at all it has been made less cost effective than in the Alpha.

Absolutely right, I didn't see that line, my bad. :}

Either way, I want to see if relic finally figured out the teching costs from alpha, looking forward to next patch. Hopefully.

I think it will be fine. StuG will actually be useful for a change. It's a turretless tank, even the slightest flank will screw with it.

Compared to the m10 stug is fine.

Don't forget Stug gets spotting scopes with Elephant commander.

Don't forget Stug gets spotting scopes with Elephant commander.

Wont the stugs effectiveness and uses now also really nerf allied light vehicles a lot sooner now. This patch was ment to enhance early play but if the stugs a goal to aim at now there are gonna be a lot of tears over trucks going down to a fast stug....

Wont the stugs effectiveness and uses now also really nerf allied light vehicles a lot sooner now. This patch was ment to enhance early play but if the stugs a goal to aim at now there are gonna be a lot of tears over trucks going down to a fast stug....

I don´t think so. The StuG is slightly more expensive and should come some seconds later now. The increased penetration doesn´t affect light vehicles at all as every hit was a penetration before. You´re now only going to see more people build StuGs. Balance wise this doesn´t change the situation between StuG and light vehicles.

The 160 hp increase means you have to hit the StuG one or two times more often, but the Greyhound, T-70 etc. weren´t supposed to defeat StuGs in the first place.

People are going to feel encouraged to build the already available option. As it was it used to be lackluster.

I'm foreseeing more TWP OP threads.
From a +60% (nowadays) to +95% penetration on IS2 at max range.
Anyway, it's gonna be good for to supplement PIV against call in play.

It's time that tracking becomes revised and the Su85 gets a more interesting vet ability.

Airborne

Captain
Pathfinder crewed weapons
New stuart


New STUG=Nullified

I'm foreseeing more TWP OP threads.
From a +60% (nowadays) to +95% penetration on IS2 at max range.
Anyway, it's gonna be good for to supplement PIV against call in play.

It's time that tracking becomes revised and the Su85 gets a more interesting vet ability.

Good point. I especially like the idea of it [Soviet upgraded halftrack] losing the reinforment ability. As for veterancy bonuses, we are planning to doing a evaluation sweep of all veterency bonuses and abilities in the near future.

By JLee, official forums. Oh the hype

By JLee, official forums. Oh the hype

"In the near future" fall 2016

By JLee, official forums. Oh the hype

:IwantTobelieve: