I know it's theorycrafting but i want to know when to use the Su85 over the new Su76.
They both have the same penetration value now but the Su76 is significant cheaper.
At zero vet the SU85 causes more dmg, but i think at vet 3 the different should no longer be so much. (hope someone knows the numbers with vet)
So why not make the SU76 and get an anti Infantry Barrage and for the cost nearly the same AT capability?
Su85 vs new SU76
18 Jun 2015, 08:41 AM
#1
Posts: 68
18 Jun 2015, 08:45 AM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Currently?
Still never.
We have to wait for remaining changes before SU-76 will get some spot light.
Still never.
We have to wait for remaining changes before SU-76 will get some spot light.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jun 2015, 08:50 AM
#3
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
su85 is beefier, has more dps at all levels of vet, can self spot, etc etc. its basically a much more dedicated AT platform where as the su76 is a poormans su85 that has the limited utility of a barrage.
18 Jun 2015, 08:51 AM
#4
Posts: 952 | Subs: 1
At vet 3-
SU76 has damage of 140 and reload of 2.61 seconds, or 53.6 DPS
Su85 has damage of 160 and reload of 2.49 seconds or 64.2 DPS
The difference isn't staggering, the SU76 will vet faster, has barrage, is cheaper, and in due time will possess another very large economic and timing advantage over the SU85 . SU85 has health, DPS, and can self-spot (both vehicles are armored such that they are proof against small arms and autocannons, but cannot deflect any significant vehicle cannon, so the SU85 doesn't have a real advantage there).
SU76 has damage of 140 and reload of 2.61 seconds, or 53.6 DPS
Su85 has damage of 160 and reload of 2.49 seconds or 64.2 DPS
The difference isn't staggering, the SU76 will vet faster, has barrage, is cheaper, and in due time will possess another very large economic and timing advantage over the SU85 . SU85 has health, DPS, and can self-spot (both vehicles are armored such that they are proof against small arms and autocannons, but cannot deflect any significant vehicle cannon, so the SU85 doesn't have a real advantage there).
18 Jun 2015, 09:11 AM
#5
Posts: 2561
As far as AT goes, the SU-85 is still far more superior. No way in hell I would rely on the SU-76 to stop a tiger or panther. And this is coming from someone who already tried it in it's buffed form.
Try to spam SU-76s and you will be stomped the moment anything bigger then a P4 comes out.
Try to spam SU-76s and you will be stomped the moment anything bigger then a P4 comes out.
18 Jun 2015, 09:22 AM
#7
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
having two units with very similar roles built from the same building isn't the best of ideas to be honest.
Why buy the SU-85 when the SU-76 is a lot cheaper but a litte worse at AT and has a free AI barrage. The SU-85 and T-34/76 need to be looked at to be made a lot more desirable.
Why buy the SU-85 when the SU-76 is a lot cheaper but a litte worse at AT and has a free AI barrage. The SU-85 and T-34/76 need to be looked at to be made a lot more desirable.
18 Jun 2015, 13:26 PM
#8
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
While T4 is not popular on 1v1, you could easily go Katyusha + Su76. The fuel cost of the 76 won't delay too much your call ins tanks and you won't be defendless against an Ostwind/P4 or Flak HT/P2
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
18 Jun 2015, 13:50 PM
#9
Posts: 935
As for me I'd say that SU76 faster and has greater rotation speed. It is important too.
Of coz it has AI barrage which is great too.
But something tells me that Werhm gonna build Stug much more frequent now.
I would try combo 2 Stug E 2 Stug G all the Stun gonna hurt
Both Stugs have more HP (560)
I think this would be especially difficult for USF
Of coz it has AI barrage which is great too.
But something tells me that Werhm gonna build Stug much more frequent now.
I would try combo 2 Stug E 2 Stug G all the Stun gonna hurt
Both Stugs have more HP (560)
I think this would be especially difficult for USF
18 Jun 2015, 23:42 PM
#10
Posts: 1891
Stug Life
The Fascisti Will Pay.
19 Jun 2015, 15:56 PM
#11
Posts: 738
SU-76 is more mobile and has the barrage, in the alpha it was much better vs OKW than the SU-85. (especially if you had a screen of DP guards)
19 Jun 2015, 16:08 PM
#12
Posts: 1042
Suchka Life
Fixed that for you.
Looking forward to trying out the new SU-76M. I've always tried to like them and I've sometimes managed to get them to work, but it's always been an uphill struggle, hopefully this will change...
19 Jun 2015, 16:33 PM
#13
Posts: 1891
As of right now they are only viable with Soviet Industry t1-t4.
I anticipate T2 skipping as Ostheer to rush a Stug now. I also foresee Soviet SU-85 boring the dust.
I anticipate T2 skipping as Ostheer to rush a Stug now. I also foresee Soviet SU-85 boring the dust.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
19 Jun 2015, 18:13 PM
#14
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently BannedSu85 is still an autocannon of death at vet 2 and 3. Forcing off anything it shoots at. Su76 cant take that away.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
19 Jun 2015, 19:00 PM
#15
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
Also remember that the su76 can only tank 3 at gun shots, where as the su85 can take 4.
19 Jun 2015, 19:08 PM
#16
Posts: 1217
Also remember that the su76 can only tank 3 at gun shots, where as the su85 can take 4.Giving it the survivability of a Jackson. Yet the clumsy mobility (fucked up patching) of a turretless tank destroyer. I think the performance differences between both units will show. The Su-76 is still a glass cannon. The current (old) StuG is hardly built because it goes down with three shots.
I imagine the new Su-76 like the StuG is right now with less armor, a barrage,less AI capabilities, 5 fuel cheaper and with 60 range.
19 Jun 2015, 21:53 PM
#17
Posts: 1144 | Subs: 7
the su76 will definitely be useful in a pack of 2 or 3. they have a decent chance of penetrating even panthers, and actually do pose a threat when engaging from max range.
19 Jun 2015, 22:24 PM
#18
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The major drawback of the SU76 is that it is super easy to flank or get away from. Unlike other tank destoyers, the SU76 terrible at firing on the move due to having no swivel for the gun. You have to be lined up exactly to make a shot, which is often not possible when chasing or kiting enemy tanks. This characteristic of the SU76 is often overlooked but it is a big reason of why it is a pretty shitty unit.
21 Jun 2015, 09:38 AM
#19
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
SU76 has another capability Su85 doesn´t have. You are not only building a SU76 for its AT but its cheap barrage. SU76 isn´t a hardcounter but an overall unit able to be used in many situation. Su85 has no value if there is not tank on the field.
21 Jun 2015, 13:57 PM
#20
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
SU76 has another capability Su85 doesn´t have. You are not only building a SU76 for its AT but its cheap barrage. SU76 isn´t a hardcounter but an overall unit able to be used in many situation. Su85 has no value if there is not tank on the field.
Barrage is unreliable crap.
It is better to have SU-85 and Katy than a tonn of SU-76 with shitty barrage.
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