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russian armor

No tech demo just poor design.

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4 Jun 2015, 17:11 PM
#181
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



He didn't say they could fire on the move, you have misinterpreted him. He was replying to your denial of his statement about "LMG cancer".

So his statement "Have you seen 1919s on paras and riflemen" doesn't mean "they can shoot on the move" it means "they are (in his opinion) a real pain and spoil gameplay".


I hope I cleared that up. I think you're probably auto-disagreeing with what he says. I'm not saying he's right but if you want to have a constructive discussion with him, you'll have to at least understand and take on what he writes before writing "you're wrong".


He was responding to me about firing LMGs on the move
4 Jun 2015, 17:14 PM
#182
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

The issue with LMG's is that there is no down side. When you have lots of PPsh's you can't do much at long range, that's a disadvantage, when you have lots of Shreks and Zooks you will be lacking for Anti infantry.

With LMG's you have superb long range DPS, and most of the units that can get LMG's have good short range DPS to. And on many maps there is so little cover you can't get into short range of the LMG units anyway.

This doesn't even touch on how broken and overpowered defensive stance is considering everyone uses it offensively


Are you saying you have seen blobs doing 'defensive stances'?
4 Jun 2015, 17:21 PM
#183
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Are you saying you have seen blobs doing 'defensive stances'?


Defensive stance is an ability that 1919 equipped units can use that gives them bonus's akin to yellow cover as well as gaining the ability to suppress enemy units. It has an extremely short cool down and can be toggled on and off at will.

Riflemen can't fire 1919s on the move and Paras have like 20-25% accuracy. So they have to stop. A blob is more dangerous if they have ppshs, G 43s, etc


PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can't close into CQC with them, all you can do is spam harder.

It's not like you want to fire on the move anyway, just walk up to the enemy lines turn on defensive stance and there you go.
4 Jun 2015, 19:58 PM
#184
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Defensive stance is an ability that 1919 equipped units can use that gives them bonus's akin to yellow cover as well as gaining the ability to suppress enemy units. It has an extremely short cool down and can be toggled on and off at will.



PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them, all you can do is spam harder.

It's not like you want to fire on the move anyway, just walk up to the enemy lines turn on defensive stance and there you go.


Jesus, 'PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them.' ARE YOU INSANE?
4 Jun 2015, 20:03 PM
#185
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



Jesus, 'PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them.' ARE YOU INSANE?


Having to stop to fire isn't much of a disadvantage when stopping to fire gives you a huge bonus. IE defensive stance.

4 Jun 2015, 20:49 PM
#186
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Having to stop to fire isn't much of a disadvantage when stopping to fire gives you a huge bonus. IE defensive stance.



i am asking again, has anyone done this to you?
4 Jun 2015, 21:10 PM
#187
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

If you are not abusing "offensive stance" you are doing it wrong.
5 Jun 2015, 05:14 AM
#188
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

If you are not abusing "offensive stance" you are doing it wrong.


Oh ok, cool. that has never happened to me, that's why I asked
5 Jun 2015, 23:43 PM
#189
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

I don't find demos to be a very big threat, personally.

When I play SU or USF Armored Company then yes, I do use demos to great effect against many opponents. I place them on fuel points to wipe backcappers or on chokepoints to defeat blobs with one click.

It's precisely because I use demos as such that I actively avoid them when I play Axis. I never simply click on a capture point, instead actually holding down the RMB so I can precisely control my squad's positioning and make sure there's only one model in the circle, on it's very edge. I find it hilarious when my enemy then sets off a demo on the point only to kill at most one man, and it even seems to counter booby traps fairly well. As an added bonus, it lets me cap faster as I don't have to spend time traveling into and out of the cap circle.

I keep my units spread out, so there's never multiple squads overlapping, especially when going around corners. As OKW I give every Sturm a minesweeper (it's great that they can put them away and thus not lose DPS) and if I really have to move my units together then I put those sweepers at the front of the line. As OH of course there's usually some debate between a flamer or a sweeper, and usually I'll just hold off on sweepers for them unless I've actually seen my opponent using mines or demos.

Long story short, demos don't ever make a major threat to me, because I take precautions against them at all times. They do, however, seem to really piss off my enemies, who don't.
6 Jun 2015, 00:29 AM
#190
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2015, 09:51 AMKatitof


If something is too strong, its getting a nerf to bring it in line with the other armies in the first place, so why anyone in his right mind would compensate for nerfs?

If you compensate for nerfing overpowered stuff, you create another overpowered stuff.

If you're giving away tools of X army to Y army without giving something from Y to X you CREATE another imbalance.

Imagine now USF getting ost sniper clone, because why not? USF doesn't have a sniper and they suffer greatly from fighting against one, so why shouldn't they have a sniper of their own to "balance" this out?

Does that sound fair? Because in my book, it doesn't sound fair at all and is a plain stupid. Just like alexes proposal.


I don't believe that's what was initially proposed. They want to weaken demos because they believe them to be overpowered.

In other words this:

jump backJump back to quoted post24 May 2015, 09:51 AMKatitof


If something is too strong, its getting a nerf to bring it in line with the other armies in the first place, ...


Now, clearly you disagree that demos are overpowered. So maybe you should concentrate on making that argument instead of trying to say that something else should be buffed, it's muddling the conversation.

I personally don't believe demos are overpowered. But I do find daspalous' idea interesting.
6 Jun 2015, 21:01 PM
#191
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I think the original issue has to do with them not requiring an tech or research to be available. The idea that very early in the game allied players have the option to throw down a very strong blob counter.

If I'm playing soviets and I see my axis opponents are going with straight up blobbing action, I've immediately got a GREAT counter available.

When I'm playing axis and I'm facing even larger blobs than myself or my team could ever muster, I've got... Well... sign posts. :p
9 Jun 2015, 19:12 PM
#192
avatar of SuperSonicFan

Posts: 14

Demo charges are too fun to be nerfed. For the love of God please do not 'fix' them by nerfing them. It's not the Soviet player's fault they have to rely on mines and demos since Cons suck so bad. I'd take a nerf if they gave Cons a non-doc AI upgrade, but since that will never happen.... DEMO CHARGES!
9 Jun 2015, 22:30 PM
#193
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1617

Demo charges are too fun to be nerfed. For the love of God please do not 'fix' them by nerfing them. It's not the Soviet player's fault they have to rely on mines and demos since Cons suck so bad. I'd take a nerf if they gave Cons a non-doc AI upgrade, but since that will never happen.... DEMO CHARGES!


Fun to wipe squads with one click, no warning ability
10 Jun 2015, 12:43 PM
#194
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186

I think the bigger issue is that they can still wipe the squad that's fricking detecting it. It needs to be easily destroyed *IF DETECTED*, at range without having to sacrifice the sweeping unit.
10 Jun 2015, 12:45 PM
#195
avatar of Goldeneale

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jun 2015, 12:43 PMRupert
I think the bigger issue is that they can still wipe the squad that's fricking detecting it. It needs to be easily destroyed *IF DETECTED*, at range without having to sacrifice the sweeping unit.


Just shoot it. You can even shoot mines if you're so inclined.
10 Jun 2015, 12:57 PM
#196
avatar of Rupert

Posts: 186



Just shoot it. You can even shoot mines if you're so inclined.


Last time I checked, sturmpioneers and Pioneers cannot "shoot" mines.

i've also tested with various tanks and for some reason it takes ages for a tank to hit and destroy a Demo charge.
10 Jun 2015, 13:05 PM
#197
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Jun 2015, 12:57 PMRupert


Last time I checked, sturmpioneers and Pioneers cannot "shoot" mines.

i've also tested with various tanks and for some reason it takes ages for a tank to hit and destroy a Demo charge.

Could it be... because you haven't played the game for at least 2 months?

Demo Charges are now targetable when revealed


Also last time I've checked, mines wouldn't detonate when detected and demo isn't really a mine.
10 Jun 2015, 14:36 PM
#198
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

you have to A click the democharge with infantry, cause the attack cursor will not appear, or at least not for me...
10 Jun 2015, 15:20 PM
#199
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned
The attack cursor certainly does appear for all standard infantry, but no sweeper pios and sturmpios cannot shoot demo charges they will always try to disarm them.
10 Jun 2015, 15:41 PM
#200
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1


We all use demo's as hyper buffed mines
What is the pourcentage of demo's actually being used to destroy bunker / empty buildings compare to demo being used in a middle of a road, a chockpoint or a ressource point ?
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