No tech demo just poor design.

He didn't say they could fire on the move, you have misinterpreted him. He was replying to your denial of his statement about "LMG cancer".

So his statement "Have you seen 1919s on paras and riflemen" doesn't mean "they can shoot on the move" it means "they are (in his opinion) a real pain and spoil gameplay".


I hope I cleared that up. I think you're probably auto-disagreeing with what he says. I'm not saying he's right but if you want to have a constructive discussion with him, you'll have to at least understand and take on what he writes before writing "you're wrong".

He was responding to me about firing LMGs on the move

The issue with LMG's is that there is no down side. When you have lots of PPsh's you can't do much at long range, that's a disadvantage, when you have lots of Shreks and Zooks you will be lacking for Anti infantry.

With LMG's you have superb long range DPS, and most of the units that can get LMG's have good short range DPS to. And on many maps there is so little cover you can't get into short range of the LMG units anyway.

This doesn't even touch on how broken and overpowered defensive stance is considering everyone uses it offensively

Are you saying you have seen blobs doing 'defensive stances'?

Are you saying you have seen blobs doing 'defensive stances'?

Defensive stance is an ability that 1919 equipped units can use that gives them bonus's akin to yellow cover as well as gaining the ability to suppress enemy units. It has an extremely short cool down and can be toggled on and off at will.

Riflemen can't fire 1919s on the move and Paras have like 20-25% accuracy. So they have to stop. A blob is more dangerous if they have ppshs, G 43s, etc

PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can't close into CQC with them, all you can do is spam harder.

It's not like you want to fire on the move anyway, just walk up to the enemy lines turn on defensive stance and there you go.

Defensive stance is an ability that 1919 equipped units can use that gives them bonus's akin to yellow cover as well as gaining the ability to suppress enemy units. It has an extremely short cool down and can be toggled on and off at will.



PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them, all you can do is spam harder.

It's not like you want to fire on the move anyway, just walk up to the enemy lines turn on defensive stance and there you go.

Jesus, 'PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them.' ARE YOU INSANE?

Jesus, 'PPsh's and G43's have poor accuracy on the move to. LMG blobs are far more dangerous on a majority of maps because you can close into CQC with them.' ARE YOU INSANE?

Having to stop to fire isn't much of a disadvantage when stopping to fire gives you a huge bonus. IE defensive stance.

Having to stop to fire isn't much of a disadvantage when stopping to fire gives you a huge bonus. IE defensive stance.

i am asking again, has anyone done this to you?

If you are not abusing "offensive stance" you are doing it wrong.

If you are not abusing "offensive stance" you are doing it wrong.

Oh ok, cool. that has never happened to me, that's why I asked

I don't find demos to be a very big threat, personally.

When I play SU or USF Armored Company then yes, I do use demos to great effect against many opponents. I place them on fuel points to wipe backcappers or on chokepoints to defeat blobs with one click.

It's precisely because I use demos as such that I actively avoid them when I play Axis. I never simply click on a capture point, instead actually holding down the RMB so I can precisely control my squad's positioning and make sure there's only one model in the circle, on it's very edge. I find it hilarious when my enemy then sets off a demo on the point only to kill at most one man, and it even seems to counter booby traps fairly well. As an added bonus, it lets me cap faster as I don't have to spend time traveling into and out of the cap circle.

I keep my units spread out, so there's never multiple squads overlapping, especially when going around corners. As OKW I give every Sturm a minesweeper (it's great that they can put them away and thus not lose DPS) and if I really have to move my units together then I put those sweepers at the front of the line. As OH of course there's usually some debate between a flamer or a sweeper, and usually I'll just hold off on sweepers for them unless I've actually seen my opponent using mines or demos.

Long story short, demos don't ever make a major threat to me, because I take precautions against them at all times. They do, however, seem to really piss off my enemies, who don't.

If something is too strong, its getting a nerf to bring it in line with the other armies in the first place, so why anyone in his right mind would compensate for nerfs?

If you compensate for nerfing overpowered stuff, you create another overpowered stuff.

If you're giving away tools of X army to Y army without giving something from Y to X you CREATE another imbalance.

Imagine now USF getting ost sniper clone, because why not? USF doesn't have a sniper and they suffer greatly from fighting against one, so why shouldn't they have a sniper of their own to "balance" this out?

Does that sound fair? Because in my book, it doesn't sound fair at all and is a plain stupid. Just like alexes proposal.

I don't believe that's what was initially proposed. They want to weaken demos because they believe them to be overpowered.

In other words this:

If something is too strong, its getting a nerf to bring it in line with the other armies in the first place, ...

Now, clearly you disagree that demos are overpowered. So maybe you should concentrate on making that argument instead of trying to say that something else should be buffed, it's muddling the conversation.

I personally don't believe demos are overpowered. But I do find daspalous' idea interesting.

I think the original issue has to do with them not requiring an tech or research to be available. The idea that very early in the game allied players have the option to throw down a very strong blob counter.

If I'm playing soviets and I see my axis opponents are going with straight up blobbing action, I've immediately got a GREAT counter available.

When I'm playing axis and I'm facing even larger blobs than myself or my team could ever muster, I've got... Well... sign posts.

Demo charges are too fun to be nerfed. For the love of God please do not 'fix' them by nerfing them. It's not the Soviet player's fault they have to rely on mines and demos since Cons suck so bad. I'd take a nerf if they gave Cons a non-doc AI upgrade, but since that will never happen.... DEMO CHARGES!

Demo charges are too fun to be nerfed. For the love of God please do not 'fix' them by nerfing them. It's not the Soviet player's fault they have to rely on mines and demos since Cons suck so bad. I'd take a nerf if they gave Cons a non-doc AI upgrade, but since that will never happen.... DEMO CHARGES!

Fun to wipe squads with one click, no warning ability

I think the bigger issue is that they can still wipe the squad that's fricking detecting it. It needs to be easily destroyed *IF DETECTED*, at range without having to sacrifice the sweeping unit.

I think the bigger issue is that they can still wipe the squad that's fricking detecting it. It needs to be easily destroyed *IF DETECTED*, at range without having to sacrifice the sweeping unit.

Just shoot it. You can even shoot mines if you're so inclined.

Just shoot it. You can even shoot mines if you're so inclined.

Last time I checked, sturmpioneers and Pioneers cannot "shoot" mines.

i've also tested with various tanks and for some reason it takes ages for a tank to hit and destroy a Demo charge.

Last time I checked, sturmpioneers and Pioneers cannot "shoot" mines.

i've also tested with various tanks and for some reason it takes ages for a tank to hit and destroy a Demo charge.

Could it be... because you haven't played the game for at least 2 months?

Demo Charges are now targetable when revealed

Also last time I've checked, mines wouldn't detonate when detected and demo isn't really a mine.

you have to A click the democharge with infantry, cause the attack cursor will not appear, or at least not for me...

The attack cursor certainly does appear for all standard infantry, but no sweeper pios and sturmpios cannot shoot demo charges they will always try to disarm them.

We all use demo's as hyper buffed mines
What is the pourcentage of demo's actually being used to destroy bunker / empty buildings compare to demo being used in a middle of a road, a chockpoint or a ressource point ?