OKW Op.... really?

I believe the problem with Obers come especially with the vet bonuses. They used to be good and they only got better and better. However now OKW is really far behind when it comes to Cost-Performance, as they need fuel, manpower AND munitions to get Obers. They're by far the second most expensive infantry in the game, only falls(which are very bad) cost more with the insane price of 440mp, and they both lose against several other units that cost less.

Don't do math to early in the morning kids

Regardless, I don't think the Vet 5 JPIV is much a problem.

i think what he's saying is that it does 250% (2.5*) at vet5. someone would have to look in the files to see whether it's 1.5x, 2.5x, or x+1.5x

150% extra damage

JIV vet 5 using cammo deals 400damage with almost 100% guaranteed accuracy and penetration. Only bounces against an IS2 at max range 9.3% of the times.

400 of 1080 is roughly 35%. So yeah, not half HP but decent. Anyway, keep fighting each other.

ive noticed that spamming fussies and getting 2 jp4's is very lethal

u can get the first jp4 2 minutes after a usf player gets a AA HT. and against sov. it just melts is2's when combined with fussie sight range.

ive also melted some allies tanks with its first strike ability.

Obers could be cheaper to build or reinforce, but if you do so, you need to rework their veterancy. Specially vet4 supression.

IB4 defensive stance (or should i called it offensive stance).

----------------

Falls pays a "tax" in order to be able to call them from ambient building. I do believe they are cheaper.

Obers could be cheaper to build or reinforce, but if you do so, you need to rework their veterancy. Specially vet4 supression.

IB4 defensive stance (or should i called it offensive stance).

----------------

Falls pays a "tax" in order to be able to call them from ambient building. I do believe they are cheaper.

Falls combat wise are scaled to around ~385 mp performance.

Falls combat wise are scaled to around ~385 mp performance.

They also are quite fragile, so calling them in behind the lines is not always the most optimal strategy in the world. Normally the best way to get Fallsch later in the game is to use the Air Assault ability on a contested VP to lock it down for a bit and get a free squad.

i think what he's saying is that it does 250% (2.5*) at vet5. someone would have to look in the files to see whether it's 1.5x, 2.5x, or x+1.5x

Check the veterancy guide

Do you realise that OKW starts with 150 mp worth of repair more than other factions?

You might take a look at my playercard befor calling me incopempetent to deal with AI lol

OKW has the same starting manpower as other factions I thought. Can anyone confirm/deny that? They have a more expensive unit and therefore less manpower so in total everyone is equal?



I'm certain of something though. Your playercard tells me you play a lot of allies and stand to benefit from:


1. People believing axis are stronger, thereby making your high rank seem like a bigger achievement in their eyes.


2. You believing axis are stronger, thereby making your high rank seem like a bigger achievement in your own eyes.



Play some axis.

Check the veterancy guide

i can't be bothered (i don't really care what the vet5 bonus is) and i have no idea how accurate it is. i'm not contesting what you say one way or the other though.

OKW has the same starting manpower as other factions I thought. Can anyone confirm/deny that? They have a more expensive unit and therefore less manpower so in total everyone is equal?

they have the same income and the same starting amount (500 iirc), minus the cost of their starting unit (spios) like every other faction.

ive noticed that spamming fussies and getting 2 jp4's is very lethal

u can get the first jp4 2 minutes after a usf player gets a AA HT. and against sov. it just melts is2's when combined with fussie sight range.

ive also melted some allies tanks with its first strike ability.

Worked as intended. Did you tryed to flank it?

Worked as intended. Did you tryed to flank it?

He can't flank, what he can't see

Now that playercard just proves you're gay Kappa

On many maps IMO there are very key points that lead to control to the several other key points and some the majority of the map. Having that concentration of force to take over these key points can win the early game in my opinion. if we lose trying to contest one of these key points early game and you have time to set up defenses it takes the USF too long to get the support weapons we need to push you out of these key points. yes we could settle for other areas but like I said it will probably end up in defeat. I agree our starting infantry are better but okw can go mg34 or kubel rendering our better infantry useless when they are pinned. Especially the maps where they put two victory points and fuel close together lets say an area highly contested if we lose the first fight there and okw have time to set up we are probably done for unless we can buy time to get arty etc. I am not saying they are much better I feel a good USF player can win that first fight there are things we can do smoke garrison etc to win that but I feel right now things are pretty even compared to before.

However your not going to agree that the forward hq truck which is really hard to destroy early to mid game does not allow okw to have a better map presence from simply getting to points faster and to defend points faster?

I notice this all the time. It takes USF a much longer time to get our major and a med truck up and going to do this equally but it is highly susceptible to the walking stukka or anything really unlike the hq truck ....

I am going to disagree because if you employ this tactic, the reach offered is really poor. Again, realistically you're only going to take a 1/3rd of the map giving you a resource income similar to the Wehrmacht, without the Wehrmacht's tools. Not bearing in mind the penalty It's very tough. It isn't like a Schwerer is being plopped down on your cut off inward of 7 minutes.

As the Allies the only maps I ever feel... eh, on are: Kharkov, maybe Langres, maybe Crossing, and Faymonville if I'm feeling bleh. When you can dictate the tempo of the fight just by right clicking closer to your opponent, it's a huge advantage. You mention it right there, you're only ever going to be dealing with: less volks, and an MG34, it's not exactly, rigid opposition. Only on the maps I mentioned can you realistically hold any more than a 1/3rd of the map, with the pressure exerted by a truck, which is still putting the allies at a significant resource advantage. You do mention the lack of indirect fire, which is an issue, but one that if solved, would neigh on entirely dwarf the OKW's relevancy.

And the final part of your argument requires the premise that your opponent has both MechReg and BattleGruppe, which leaves their mid-to-late game in a pitiful position without a Schewerer.

I think each faction has everything it needs to take out each other in my experience which either equals balance or a few things underperforming that needs a look at.

He can't flank, what he can't see

Playing Soviets it's like playing as blind music band. No one is see anything but everyone can sing a song about victory.

KT - don't needed. Just make 2 Le 18, some infantry with RECON feature and 2 JP4. And you are fine.

And to the OKW idea about 5 level of exp for infantry. I can cleary understand this added to vehicles couse they starve fuel and ammo. But did they starve for MP ? Nope. So why they should get 5 stars infantry? This is just so bad...

So I've been playing mostly OKW 1v1 lately and these are my observations.

- Volksgrenadiers gain veterancy extremely quickly, at least relative to other OKW units. Maybe too quickly - they get veterancy level five really, really easily.
- Panzerfusiliers are moderately underpriced considering their effectiveness and how well they support most OKW builds.
- The Kubelwagen is way too expensive considering its ridiculously low damage output. It's also rather slow in my opinion.
- I can't really justify OKW's munitions income reduction. Maybe it helps prevent late-game abilities like the 105mm artillery barrage from getting out of hand, but for more mundane stuff like throwing hand grenades and buying Panzershrecks it's unneeded. Just make the late-game abilities more expensive and then normalize munitions income.
- Might be a good idea to remove the Volksgrenadier Scavenge ability and replace it with something else (possibly unlocked with veterancy), especially since Sturmpioneers already perform that task. An ability that would make Volksgrenadiers more useful against infantry late-game would go a long ways, especially considering how utterly risible they are against infantry right now. I'm thinking a sprint ability or smoke grenades.
- OKW units like Sturmpioneers and upgraded Volksgrenadiers having Cold Immunity is silly.

Imo to keep OKW balanced....


All trucks should have an increased fuel cost (+20)

And resource income returned to 100%....


Currently their income disadvantage is not made up by their unit performance.




ORRRR

Buffs to volks so OKW actually have a decent chance at seeing late game, rather than 1 mistake earlygame and its gg....

USF Infantry doc pretty much hard counters OKW

The design rationale behind OKW was weak early game strong late game.

Currently they are weak early game and equivalent late game to every other faction.

The design rationale behind OKW was weak early game strong late game.

Currently they are weak early game and equivalent late game to every other faction.

yes, i love vet 5 cons

yes, i love vet 5 cons

What does that have to do with anything? Faction strength is a composite of many factors, with the nerfs to Volks/Obers and various other adjustments, OKW simply no longer is a lategame powerhouse.