Let's talk about Volksgrenadiers

I'm half expecting the OKW to be a decent "rush" faction, if what I've heard becomes reality. I love my Sturms.

They should move Volks to the Mechanized Regiment HQ, need Sturmpios but buff price, and make Kubel suppression cost Munitions. Also give Puppchen better anti infantry, and vet 0 stealth.

These new Volks should have 6 men, dps adjusted to match before but with price increase to 270.

Sorry to once again disagree with you, but that does not sound well thought out at all. Also, people may feel obliged to go MedTruck then; that suggestion in particular, is IMO pretty terrible. Also, why would kinda elite-seeming Sturmpos be in the HQ while the crappy seeming Volks would then require T1. So illogical...

So illogical...

As the whole okw faction design.

Stop crying over OKW "bad design". The actual OKW status is due to the long overnerfing list that it received along the way, since creation untill today. To adjust and operate changes is good. Overnerfing is bad and force you to do other changes that are no needed and that will trigger other changes. If brits will be changed in the same way, we will not recognize the faction in one year mark. As happened to OKW.

It's kinda same situation with women: All their life they are trying to change you, and when they finaly did it, they look at you and say: "you are not the man I fell in love with anymore".

It's kinda same situation with women: All their life they are trying to change you, and when they finaly did it, they look at you and say: "you are not the man I fell in love with anymore".

As the whole okw faction design.

I disagree. OKW is just as 'illogical' as any other faction, then. This is a game that's suppossed to transport a certain atmosphere and feel. OKW does that. All factions do. Each has it's own vibe, and they did a good job defining the different characters of the armies. Considering that there is 2 german armies, they did a good job making each feel unique and recognizeable. I think, desing-wise, OKW is better than what they did with Panzerelite as a 2nd german army.

I disagree. OKW is just as 'illogical' as any other faction, then. This is a game that's suppossed to transport a certain atmosphere and feel. OKW does that. All factions do. Each has it's own vibe, and they did a good job defining the different characters of the armies. Considering that there is 2 german armies, they did a good job making each feel unique and recognizeable. I think, desing-wise, OKW is better than what they did with Panzerelite as a 2nd german army.

Actually, OKW is designed around snowball effect.
Its supported by vet5 system and powerful mid and late game stock units.

It starts rolling small and slow, until it reaches critical mass of vetted infantry with armored support that you can't stop.
OKW is weak in 1v1, because the weakness of the army can be exploited most and both sov and USF have good early game, the longer the game drags, the bigger OKW advantage gets.
That is why among other things, OKW is strongest army in 2v2 and up, where the games last longer and exploiting early game weakness isn't as easy.

Volks are prime example of the OKW snowball design, they start slow, can fight only in numbers only to become vet5 in no time thanks to shrecks and form then on they can effectively fight most units because of scaling. Add other mid to late game units and you have a force that can be contested only if you frequently squad wipe them.

You may excuse it all you want, I call it by its name - bad faction design.
OKW does most certainly have a unique feel in contrast to other armies, but its still flawed at its core.
Buffing and nerfing units adjusts balance of the faction to a point, but it'll always be overpowering late game and underpowered early game as long as it holds to current principles.

Actually, OKW is designed around snowball effect.
Its supported by vet5 system and powerful mid and late game stock units.

It starts rolling small and slow, until it reaches critical mass of vetted infantry with armored support that you can't stop.
OKW is weak in 1v1, because the weakness of the army can be exploited most and both sov and USF have good early game, the longer the game drags, the bigger OKW advantage gets.
That is why among other things, OKW is strongest army in 2v2 and up, where the games last longer and exploiting early game weakness isn't as easy.

Volks are prime example of the OKW snowball design, they start slow, can fight only in numbers only to become vet5 in no time thanks to shrecks and form then on they can effectively fight most units because of scaling. Add other mid to late game units and you have a force that can be contested only if you frequently squad wipe them.

You may excuse it all you want, I call it by its name - bad faction design.
OKW does most certainly have a unique feel in contrast to other armies, but its still flawed at its core.
Buffing and nerfing units adjusts balance of the faction to a point, but it'll always be overpowering late game and underpowered early game as long as it holds to current principles.

I've got to agree entirely with this. The OKW is a fataly flawed faction at its core.

Vet 4 & 5 should die in a fire and the faction rebalanced from there.

I've got to agree entirely with this. The OKW is a fataly flawed faction at its core.

Vet 4 & 5 should die in a fire and the faction rebalanced from there.

I feel like vet 4 & 5 are workable. Any problems with them are the stat bonuses being too big and simplistically powerful for combat (e.g. vet 4 suppression on Obers). If they aren't all big combat bonuses, like vet 5 sprinting, I doubt it'd be too much of a problem.

I feel like vet 4 & 5 are workable. Any problems with them are the stat bonuses being too big and simplistically powerful for combat (e.g. vet 4 suppression on Obers). If they aren't all big combat bonuses, like vet 5 sprinting, I doubt it'd be too much of a problem.

I agree, there should be 3 stat buffs and 2 ability gains with vet.

It's kinda same situation with women: All their life they are trying to change you, and when they finaly did it, they look at you and say: "you are not the man I fell in love with anymore".

Hahah well said!

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True once upon a time, not really anymore. OKW's late game advantage has been hernangled to pretty much be on par with Ostheer/Soviets (USF still suffers but with good micro can do fine) since Relic realized a faction that auto wins after a certain time period is dumb just like Necrons and IG were in Dark Crusade.

Vet 4 and 5 on OKW units outside of Volks is quite rare, and you will always have less vehicles than your enemy does assuming equal map control. The reason why OKW appears to do so well late game is they don't need to micro nearly as many units as other factions do, but the investment in those units are so huge. Losing multiple vetted squads or a Panther can easily be GG for OKW in 1's and 2's.

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I kinda agree about the snowball effect. It still is a phenomenon that OKW gets better in bigger team games, isn't it? If so, maybe it would help if they were more well rounded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in team games, their shortcomings are filled by Ostheer team mates (fuel caches, MGs and med. tank). I think, if OKW had a non-doct. med. tank and MGs (or a Kubel that is more similar to MGs), it would be easier to balance them in regard of all game modes. At the same time, fuel caches maybe shouldn't benefit allied OKW players. Just ideas, though.
Also, I have no problem with 5 vet levels. But Volks are seen with 5vet too often. Slower vet for them maybe?

However, I would not call the design of the faction fundamentaly flawed. I consider many aspects part of the desingn, the idea, the feel, skins, voice acting... and all of that is actually VERY well made with the WFA factions! If these things were not well made, it would be much worse, and then it really would be fundamentaly flawed, as without a healthy art aspect, a game is not able to entangle us in the experience.