Wehrmacht Sniper op now?

well all i can say is ost sniper finally got to play a roll in the fights. just think how often ost sniper is used before the patch compare to su snipers, su sniper have chance to retreat when there is 1 model die, ost sniper well 1 model die is wipe so he got no chance. so i think it shouldn't die so easy from mortar shell or AT gun that easy.

i do think direct hit with rocket or priest art and survived is bit ridiculous

dont know why you think counter sniping isnt a thing. it obviously requires more skill than standard play. mortars wiping out snipers from full hp to 0 through sheer rng is NOT ok.

This. Soviet snipers make Ostheer's sniper useless, you just have to pay attention to the engagement, is it too much to ask? The thing is, counter sniping is only a thing for Soviets and they can and should use this to their advantage. If you see his sniper and you're like "fuck it imma spam more Cons", you're gonna lose. If you see the sniper and say, "Ok imma go T1 and use Sniper/flamerHT to kill that fucker, you're gonna win". Even with T2, you can use maxim to pin his supports and close in with Cons. Note that these are all written in paper, if you execute them right you will win the game.

And remember, if he brings in a Sniper, he is not gonna have like 2 MGs and 2 mortars and a horde of grens. You also have to spend you first 60muni + 150MP for a medic bunker ASAP which will delay your teching. Ostheer's sniper also is VERY micro intensive and does not have Flares (which are great).

Soviet T1 or simply "smart" ConsSpam can counter the sniper.

As for USF, M20, and WC. That is all. I don't wanna be "that guy" but after ages we are kinda seeing Ostheer's sniper pulling his weight, please don't act like Allied fanboys.

Bottom line, at this point skill is the determinant factor. I myself have hard time countering Ostheer's sniper specially in open maps, but the sniper is not OP.

its possible to counter snipe as both factions, its whoever shows themself first. the soviet sniper only needs one shot, the german sniper needs 2 but will cloak before the soviet sees him

The reason I bring up that counter sniping isn't much of a thing is because the Ost sniper tends to cloak faster than the Sov sniper can set up and take a shot. In fact I find the Ost sniper cloaks so quickly that he can typically kill a Sov sniper model and cloak before the second sniper model can return fire. That is not to say it isn't possible to counter snipe, but it usually requires a bit of an error on the Ost player's side to expose their sniper.

losing one sov sniper model cost 90 mp.

losing one ger model cost 360 mp.

There's also the fact that a german sniper out of cover is vulnerable to getting ambushed by a sov sniper. That's extra micro the german player has to spend on making sure his sniper stay in cover.

meanwhile most sov sniper doesn't even bother to use cover. it's easy to make back 90 mp when you're costing the german player 30 mp per shot.

the problem is mostly with the USF. Their rifleman cost 28mp to reinforce, just slightly less than the grenadier's 30mp.

He needs a health reduction to 80hp that's for sure.
It doesn't make sense that a very vulnerable unit can survive a direct mortar hit as the only inf unit in the game, lol.

But otherwise I like playing the sniper very much right now.
He does what he should do and unlike the soviet snipers he only bleeds MP and wipes only when the enemy is not attentive.

2 soviet snipers force a German unit to retreat instantly after a shot from each and they have a rather good survivability because of 2 men. I don't like that.

i seriously think a direct hit from a mortar should NOT be able to kill a sniper. you have very little control over wether or not a lucky mortar shell lands on your 360 mp investment and just wipes it. neither player uses any particular micro or skill, its just that the sniper was within mortar range and got hit. rng like that is on par with engine destroyed from snares, and is almost game losing if you lose the sniper in early mid game.

Soviet snipers always died from direct mortar hits.
Ubermensh shouldn't why exactly?

Is soviet 360mp different from Ost 360mp?
And about "oh but when 1 men dies", sorry, that argument died the moment ost sniper got hp buff, because last time I checked post patch, ost sniper doesn't die after losing 40hp and doesn't need to pay anything for losing 40hp.

Sniper wars is the only thing Sov sniper have advantage in, all other situations Ost sniper is so much better that its not even funny, especially with that 2 over the top hps.

Lately I use the sniper really much. Before it's hp buff I also used it, but I really had to baby sit it the whole game. Eventhough I also had the 50+ kills on it, so I don't think the hp does effect that as much.

On that point I do want to mention that it should have a hp nerf of 2 hp (yes 2 hp) to 80, so it will get shot by a direct hit. I don't think that I would be still alive if I had a frontal pack howitzer shot, mortar hit or even a katushya rocket on my face. It seems odd, and I do have a replay, which has been casted by tightrope where I even headed a pack howie shot for 2 times and make it out alive. Sure, it is nice to keep your sniper alive, since the 360 mp investment paid off, but it should have been dead 2 times.

On the hand with countersniping for the soviets it's true that you only have to shoot ones (count it as a hit) and the german sniper has to fire 2 shots. But mostly of the times (in my case) my sniper is already vet 1 and the incendiary shot takes mostly of the time both sov snipers out.

Only part that I see where it should be nerfed is the part of the 82 hp to 80 hp, so it won't be a god.

I concur the OH sniper is actually somewhat (not drastically, but still) OP in its present state.
IMHO it should:
1. Retain its survivability against RNG based, AOE weaponry. Of course it might seem absurd for him to survive a mortar hit, but since there is no counterplay to this, I think it is highly desirable.
2. Become tangibly less survivable against small arms fire. Flanking and setting up ambushes for the sniper need to be more incentivised/rewarded.
Target tables, they would help so much.

I concur the OH sniper is actually somewhat (not drastically, but still) OP in its present state.
IMHO it should:
1. Retain its survivability against RNG based, AOE weaponry. Of course it might seem absurd for him to survive a mortar hit, but since there is no counterplay to this, I think it is highly desirable.
2. Become tangibly less survivable against small arms fire. Flanking and setting up ambushes for the sniper need to be more incentivised/rewarded.
Target tables, they would help so much.

So received accuracy modifiers? That's the only thing he could possibly need if we want to keep his survivability against scatter based explosives while making him vulnerable to small-arms.

Eh, ja. Stupidity on my part. You are absolutely right, and I just realised somebody made that very proposal before me. Thats what I get for not reading the thread in its entirety.

1. Retain its survivability against RNG based, AOE weaponry. Of course it might seem absurd for him to survive a mortar hit, but since there is no counterplay to this, I think it is highly desirable.

The counter-play is to not stand still under mortar fire. I don't see what is wrong with the concept of using a mortar to deal with snipers. It seems to me that this would be an ideal way to deal with a long range unit. And this is what we see with Axis indirect fire against the Soviet Sniper: A direct hit will always kill the sniper (unless a pathing error forced them to split up, which does not happen often), and shells landing near them will often score kills as well due to the fact that they have low model health and mortars have pretty good AoE. I don't see what is wrong with Ostheer snipers getting killed on direct hits as well. When there are explosives raining from the sky, snipers should be terrified, but at the moment the axis sniper can just troll right through them because he can catch a shell with his mouth and still survive. With 80 hp he will still survive the AoE damage (unlike soviet snipers), but now mortars, grenades and rockets actually pose a lethal threat against him.

The counter-play is to not stand still under mortar fire. I don't see what is wrong with the concept of using a mortar to deal with snipers. It seems to me that this would be an ideal way to deal with a long range unit. And this is what we see with Axis indirect fire against the Soviet Sniper: A direct hit will always kill the sniper (unless a pathing error forced them to split up, which does not happen often), and shells landing near them will often score kills as well due to the fact that they have low model health and mortars have pretty good AoE. I don't see what is wrong with Ostheer snipers getting killed on direct hits as well. When there are explosives raining from the sky, snipers should be terrified, but at the moment the axis sniper can just troll right through them because he can catch a shell with his mouth and still survive. With 80 hp he will still survive the AoE damage (unlike soviet snipers), but now mortars, grenades and rockets actually pose a lethal threat against him.

The problem with mortars killing 360mp snipers is that it solely relies on RNG and no skill. I agree that it could do a nerf against small arms fire, but still retain its survivability against indirect fire, like what LeYawn said.

The problem with mortars killing 360mp snipers is that it solely relies on RNG and no skill. I agree that it could do a nerf against small arms fire, but still retain its survivability against indirect fire, like what LeYawn said.

You can vastly improve your chances of killing snipers with mortars by microing them as close as possible and constantly using attack ground to target the sniper because it will target other squads instead when you don't. I don't see how this requires no skill at all to pull off.

Furthermore, as I said, you can kill the Soviet sniper just fine using this method. Why should the German sniper be immune to it?

Not at all. A direct hit will most likely wipe a full health soviet sniper team because they bunch up like crazy and the kill radius is huge because the models only have 46hp.

This. What should be done, is to fix the bunching up in cover mechanism in game. We are seeing people complaining about rifle nade wipes, tanks one shooting units, mortar wipes here and there, are all due to units bunching up.

If this problem is fixed, hopefully soviet sniper will be nore separated to not let a mortar shell to instantly wipe it.

This. What should be done, is to fix the bunching up in cover mechanism in game. We are seeing people complaining about rifle nade wipes, tanks one shooting units, mortar wipes here and there, are all due to units bunching up.

If this problem is fixed, hopefully soviet sniper will be nore separated to not let a mortar shell to instantly wipe it.

Still won't fix the issue where the Axis sniper is more or less immune to mortar/grenade/rocket-related death while the Soviet sniper is not (still 46hp per model so not even a need for direct hits to score kills). The Soviet Sniper team has always been vulnerable to Mortars because of this reason. The difference was that the soviet team could sometimes survive with 1 man while the german sniper could not. Instead of fixing it by making it fair (i.e. German sniper only killed on direct hits, soviets still vulnerable to AoE with 46hp models), they granted the axis sniper the ability to take mortars to the face and live while the Soviet teams still die if a shell lands 2 meters next to them.

didn't the white death survive an artillery strike?

Still won't fix the issue where the Axis sniper is more or less immune to mortar/grenade/rocket-related death while the Soviet sniper is not (still 46hp per model so not even a need for direct hits to score kills). The Soviet Sniper team has always been vulnerable to Mortars because of this reason. The difference was that the soviet team could sometimes survive with 1 man while the german sniper could not. Instead of fixing it by making it fair (i.e. German sniper only killed on direct hits, soviets still vulnerable to AoE with 46hp models), they granted the axis sniper the ability to take mortars to the face and live while the Soviet teams still die if a shell lands 2 meters next to them.

70% of all the times I only kill 1 model of the sov sniper and not 2. Unfortunatly for me, but perhaps I don't have sacrificed enough for the RNJezus like I do in other games!

70% of all the times I only kill 1 model of the sov sniper and not 2. Unfortunatly for me, but perhaps I don't have sacrificed enough for the RNJezus like I do in other games!

It's probably because 70% of the time you are not getting direct hits and just AoE kills; something that a 80hp Axis sniper would not die from anyway.

Unfortunatly I had enough direct hits on me, AOEJezus is not with me

Reduce hp from 82 to 79. Reduce accuracy on retreating squads.