Along with nit-picking to the Axis's advantage.
1941 Factions
20 Apr 2015, 17:42 PM
#41
Posts: 1571
They did, however, have an advantage- the vision of hundreds of T-34s and KVs fighting tank to tank with 38T and PzIII is mythology not based on operational history.
20 Apr 2015, 18:00 PM
#42
Posts: 1571
3 types of basic infantry:
Regulars, Conscripts, and People's Militia.
Regulars can be considered superior to the 'cons' from the regular game. People's Militia can be considered like ostruppen or irregulars.
Also: Parachute can be considered.
Tanks:
BT-7 and T-26 core Soviet tanks with call-in KV and T-34 tanks. Also, lend-lease Matildas.
Pz38T and Panzer III core German tanks with call-in Panzer IV short-barrelled.
Regulars, Conscripts, and People's Militia.
Regulars can be considered superior to the 'cons' from the regular game. People's Militia can be considered like ostruppen or irregulars.
Also: Parachute can be considered.
Tanks:
BT-7 and T-26 core Soviet tanks with call-in KV and T-34 tanks. Also, lend-lease Matildas.
Pz38T and Panzer III core German tanks with call-in Panzer IV short-barrelled.
20 Apr 2015, 18:28 PM
#43
Posts: 1571
Some historical things:
Panzer IV short as the core doctrinal tank is wrong. It was a minority tank in the panzergruppes.
What was present in large quantities in 1941 was the 50mm platoon mortar- this could be included.
Infantry squads were also large and better trained than later in the war.
Flak 88 guns were attached to tank units as a defense against possible soviet heavy models.
G41 should not be there.
You should include motorcyclists (elite infantry, with Calvary symbols)- a huge part of Barbarossa. The K-battalions were discontinued at the end 1942.
Panzer IV short as the core doctrinal tank is wrong. It was a minority tank in the panzergruppes.
What was present in large quantities in 1941 was the 50mm platoon mortar- this could be included.
Infantry squads were also large and better trained than later in the war.
Flak 88 guns were attached to tank units as a defense against possible soviet heavy models.
G41 should not be there.
You should include motorcyclists (elite infantry, with Calvary symbols)- a huge part of Barbarossa. The K-battalions were discontinued at the end 1942.
(tell me if I missed anything)
20 Apr 2015, 18:30 PM
#44
Posts: 521
Some historical things:
Panzer IV short as the core doctrinal tank is wrong. It was a minority tank in the panzergruppes.
What was present in large quantities in 1941 was the 50mm platoon mortar- this could be included.
Infantry squads were also large and better trained than later in the war.
Flak 88 guns were attached to tank units as a defense against possible soviet heavy models.
G41 should not be there.
You should include motorcyclists (elite infantry, with Calvary symbols)- a huge part of Barbarossa. The K-battalions were discontinued at the end 1942.
Yeah but none of those things are in game.
Find out about my redesign of all four factions, with more to come!
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
20 Apr 2015, 22:02 PM
#45
Posts: 1216
No not really. And I;m not about to go buy the packs just to see if you're right.
You never really played ToW, did you?
There is a whole tech structure made for 1941 already present in game together with at least 3 doctrines balanced around that specific time period.
And that also sounds terrible. It's not like we have Panzer IIIs in this game, which was the most prevalent medium tank for Germany in 1941. Trying to make a 1941 era faction layout in this game is like trying to make apple pie with nothing but apples.
It's not going to be possible in terms of making a mod unless you actually make 1941-era units, because there simply isn't enough to be found in this game. The closest to a Panther in 1941 would be a Panzer4, and that's pretty much the only medium tank for Ostheer. A 1941 mod with just Panzer 4s is like a USF army design without any Sherman tanks.
No, I am trying to make a concept of a coherent and unique 1941 faction without being lazy and I already have a mod so if I do end up turning these concepts to a mod, it won't be any time soon.
20 Apr 2015, 22:44 PM
#46
Posts: 1042
Axis forces would get owned by OP soviets in 1941, with their KV-1,KV-2, T-28´s and the T34 and BT-7 spam, how would you balance the game around them?
Well yeah, but the situation was reversed in 1944-45 and in both cases the sides that you'd think would lose won and won easily. (though arguably the Soviets actually had a better time facing Tigers and Panthers than the Germans did facing KVs.
21 Apr 2015, 00:03 AM
#47
Posts: 403
They did, however, have an advantage- the vision of hundreds of T-34s and KVs fighting tank to tank with 38T and PzIII is mythology not based on operational history.
Too bad no-one thinks of a vision of hundreds of t-34s and KVs fighting tank to tank with there german lessers.
Its not like russia made way too many T-26s during the interwar period along with the BT series and had them waiting in motor-pools all across Russia. Wannabe WW2 Historians always forget about how the interwar period helped shape things before.
This means the fact that the few(hundred) KVs and T-34s that fought during the time had even more effectiveness on the large number of Panzer 3s and 38ts.
Yet again, these tank hold-outs effected the time tables that germany could not afford to lose.
Yet again, I await the nit-picking.
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
21 Apr 2015, 00:12 AM
#48
Posts: 1571
Basically we have a few people here that don't grasp Barbarossa, parrots myths, and one that resorts to straw man agenda.
The KV and the T-34 had nil impact on the progress of Barbarossa. It did, however, have an impact on the progress of Operation Typhoon.
The Germans lost the war in July-August 1941, with the slow and troubled execution of the Smolensk pocket.
The core tanks of Barbarossa were the Bt-series and the T-26. The German infantry divisions had little trouble advancing or defending against soviet armor in 1941- their 37mm 'doorknockers' were enough. In the odd case that they had to deal with T-34 or Kv models, they used pioneers, their 88mm guns and artillery batteries. Much of the time, the soviet armored forces got outmaneuvered and were defeated without even fighting.
It would be too unhistorical to use the T-34 and the KV as a core tank for a mod.
The KV and the T-34 had nil impact on the progress of Barbarossa. It did, however, have an impact on the progress of Operation Typhoon.
The Germans lost the war in July-August 1941, with the slow and troubled execution of the Smolensk pocket.
The core tanks of Barbarossa were the Bt-series and the T-26. The German infantry divisions had little trouble advancing or defending against soviet armor in 1941- their 37mm 'doorknockers' were enough. In the odd case that they had to deal with T-34 or Kv models, they used pioneers, their 88mm guns and artillery batteries. Much of the time, the soviet armored forces got outmaneuvered and were defeated without even fighting.
It would be too unhistorical to use the T-34 and the KV as a core tank for a mod.
21 Apr 2015, 00:33 AM
#49
Posts: 403
Basically we have a few people here that don't grasp Barbarossa, parrots myths, and one that resorts to straw man agenda.
The KV and the T-34 had nil impact on the progress of Barbarossa. It did, however, have an impact on the progress of Operation Typhoon.
Every hour/day they held up german armor was a huge impact on the German progress.
The Germans lost the war in July-August 1941, with the slow and troubled execution of the Smolensk pocket.
The core tanks of Barbarossa were the Bt-series and the T-26. The German infantry divisions had little trouble advancing or defending against soviet armor in 1941- their 37mm 'doorknockers' were enough. In the odd case that they had to deal with T-34 or Kv models, they used pioneers, their 88mm guns and artillery batteries. Much of the time, the soviet armored forces got outmaneuvered and were defeated without even fighting.
It would be too unhistorical to use the T-34 and the KV as a core tank for a mod.
You bring up a good point, expect what I put in bold.
T-34s and KV-1s/2s wouldn't be unhistorical. It would be Historical. Ever hear of the shit that is the L-11?
Major Conscript user.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
Sometimes NKVD Commander.
21 Apr 2015, 00:42 AM
#50
Posts: 1571
Blame plan Barbarossa, German leadership errors and resistance of soviet rifle divisions- but this has nothing to do with the tank model proportions possessed by the RKKA in the summer-fall of 1941'.
21 Apr 2015, 01:37 AM
#51
Posts: 354
Basically we have a few people here that don't grasp Barbarossa, parrots myths, and one that resorts to straw man agenda.
The KV and the T-34 had nil impact on the progress of Barbarossa. It did, however, have an impact on the progress of Operation Typhoon.
It would be too unhistorical to use the T-34 and the KV as a core tank for a mod.
First of all were did you saw that it is mod about operation Barbarossa, author presented it like mod for whole 1941 period, not a mod "Barbarossa only".
And I suppose such things/persones like Dmitriy Lavrinenko who fought on T-34, Zinoviy Kolobanov who fought on KV-1 and was a commander of KV company, Constantin Somohin - first BT-7 then T-34, Pavel Gudzya, commander of 5 KV-1, 2 T-34 and 2 BA-10, Alexander Burda and many others, all fought from 1941, are just "parrots myths" or soviet propaganda, so they are unhistorical.
That soviet tanks companies wasn't effective in the beginning of WW2, and there was resons for that, like lack of communication devices, outdated tactics, a lot of tanks was abandoned because of bad logistics and etc. All of that doesn't mean that T-34 and KV's wasn't important part in the early 1941 and are unhistorical.
21 Apr 2015, 02:31 AM
#52
Posts: 344
-knuckle crack-
T0
Ingenery (150 MP, 4 pop) - 4 men armed with a Vintovka Mosina obr. 1938 (M38 carbine). Can construct T1 through T4, and can build Maxim emplacements, sandbags, wire, and tanktraps.
T1
Conscripts (200 MP, 6 pop; no clue what they're called in Russian) - 6 men each with a Vintovka Mosina obr. 1891-30 (standard 1891/30 Mosin). Gain an additional man with each level of veterancy.
PM obr. 1910 (300 MP, 4 pop; It's a Maxim. What do you want?) 4 man crew. Gain the ability to fire type D heavy ball ammunition at vet 2 (higher damage, lower accuracy at medium and long range). Revised damage output model; ridiculous damage and suppression output at the expense of mobility; movement speed reduced to 2.
ugh. That's all I've got for tonight, I feel like shit...I'll finish this tomorrow(ish).
T0
Ingenery (150 MP, 4 pop) - 4 men armed with a Vintovka Mosina obr. 1938 (M38 carbine). Can construct T1 through T4, and can build Maxim emplacements, sandbags, wire, and tanktraps.
T1
Conscripts (200 MP, 6 pop; no clue what they're called in Russian) - 6 men each with a Vintovka Mosina obr. 1891-30 (standard 1891/30 Mosin). Gain an additional man with each level of veterancy.
PM obr. 1910 (300 MP, 4 pop; It's a Maxim. What do you want?) 4 man crew. Gain the ability to fire type D heavy ball ammunition at vet 2 (higher damage, lower accuracy at medium and long range). Revised damage output model; ridiculous damage and suppression output at the expense of mobility; movement speed reduced to 2.
ugh. That's all I've got for tonight, I feel like shit...I'll finish this tomorrow(ish).
Pocketsize: "I can't wait till they add british to CoH: O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada."
21 Apr 2015, 03:37 AM
#53
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
i'd want a flak36 and a PzIII to get excited.
and these guys
also, pioneers with satchels and/or anti-tank grenades.
and these guys
also, pioneers with satchels and/or anti-tank grenades.
21 Apr 2015, 08:58 AM
#54
Posts: 521
Updated with the stock part of Soviets.
Find out about my redesign of all four factions, with more to come!
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
Feel free to contact me regarding your Attribute Editor-related questions.
21 Apr 2015, 09:37 AM
#55
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
No not really. And I;m not about to go buy the packs just to see if you're right.
You should get the largest TOW bundle - 1941 - with the base game
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
21 Apr 2015, 09:42 AM
#56
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Have you ever played very old game called Panzer General II? Best WW2 strategy, really... Point it, you could select (skirmish) year you want to play. Damn amazing option so in fact you could make equal battle between Germans and French, Poles etc or very late game with superior Germans armor.
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