When another player takes control of your units....

Ever temporarily lose control of your units or had units ordered around mysteriously (via another player)?

It's very subtle that you barely notice, other times it's blatantly obvious. This game from last evening was the latter. My units were ordered around places I didn't send them, occasionally retreating mysteriously, building things in places I never ordered built, my teammates complained in chat of the same and the enemy team complained in chat of not being able to control their units or leave base at times.

I quickly caught on to what was happening (because have had this happen before, I've seen it more) and so had to watch every unit like a hawk, so that if one was ordered away from its position I'd have to select it and give it a new command to cancel the old out, but usually the command wouldn't 'take' and I'd sit there spamming the unit commands until eventually some unknown force 'freed it.' In this particular match the enemy team seemed to bear the brunt of it.

If I even suspect this type of activity I normally drop, but stayed this time only to record whole game.
Previously, this activity was a rare occurrence but am encountering this with more frequency, as in, maybe once every-other evening or so. The tell-tale sign someone is using this type of hack is that the game has this weird stutter/choppy feel from the outset. It's not lag or FPS exactly, it's different but similar.

***I'm not naming and shaming anyone, I don't know who is responsible, but providing the replay to increase awareness, you can make your own conclusions:

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  BeardofSocrates [NoName] Zboub =[ECR]= Mogz80 Sir Charles Cray Cray

  denverl joelidass S0_L337_1T_HURTS Provocative Booty

  Losing control of units

  by: S0_L337_1T_HURTS map: Hill 331

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EDIT: Can click 'view chat' from the Replay post to view in-game chat without downloading replay. Good for added color.

You probably should have made a video of it, replay doesn't show it the orders were yours or not.

I think that I have experienced the same thing you have, but as far as I can tell this is not a hack being used by another player, but something that occurs when one or more of the players get horribly out of sync with the battle servers. Rather than it being someone else ordering your units around, what's happening is actually extremely long input lag/delay. I've seen the delay be as long as a few minutes, and giving more orders just adds them to the queue. I don't know if there is a fix for it but I'm fairly confident this is not a hack.

Posted this in the Replays section, can click on the[i] show chat[/i] from that post to pull up the chat from in-game... it will add some color (though I guess replays record ALL chat only not team chat?).

It's impossible to prove anything. I agree. Still, what I experienced was real. What everyone else in the game experienced was real. And this wasn't a one-time experience, it's happened before and with more frequency. It's still rare, thank god, but it's real.

Rather than it being someone else ordering your units around, what's happening is actually extremely long input lag/delay.

I know the difference between input lag, desynch, FPS problems, etc. I've experienced all of them, still do. This is much different. For instance, having units randomly retreated for no reason, or units being sent to a totally different destination, isn't due to desynch. Someone is making those commands.

If it is not very reare experience for you just prepare some kind of screen recording program in the background and then when it happens turn it on and try to make your cursor visible all the time. Then you can upload the video and show it here or send to Relic.

I've experienced it before its just major lag. Someone is using crappy internet from the other side of the world or someone's internet is being throttled.

It's probably just the Fuhrer undermining your strategic decisions, I wouldn't worry too much about it, Happens all the time...

Think critically for a moment:

Can lag/server desynch create random commands never entered? During lag/de-synch events, commands entered are either lost or delayed (are sort of queued up) and can simulate a loss of control, but lag/desynch does not create commands from whole cloth.

For instance, if you never command-ordered troops movement to a location, but yet they move ; if you never retreated, yet they retreat; if you never ordered a building or unit built, yet it builds.

Sounds like some sort of server issue or server bug. It's silly to call something like this a hack when you consider how unlikely it is for a client to be able to affect commands sent from other players or spoof commands from other players. Unless it consistently happens against one opponent and never happens against anyone else, there's no reason to assume this is a hack of any kind.

I posted a thread about this before.

I played a 4v4 where everyone dropped on loading apart from me and one opposition player. Any unit I had was immediately ordered to the opposite end of the map as soon as they left my base sector. The only way to control a unit was to click a path continously. The other six teams did nothing at all, while the opposing player capped the map. During this time I could see them message in in-game chat.

I was sure it was a hack, but when I watched the replay back, it just showed a normal game being played, with none of my input being reflected. I assume I must have had a strange desync like six of the other players at the start, but not been kicked out the game.

Yeah it does happen. I saw it on a stream first but had a few games like that since. Usually when units don't respond you try issuing lots of different orders until it works. Occasionally when the game is lagged it seems to treat the orders as relative (not absolute according to your screen). So when things start moving they can spend ages wandering around in a big pattern that you frustratedly clicked out 2-3 mins prior (in a different location, but same shape). And you can't stop it because the game is probably continually lagged until it crashes.

Lag/desynch simulate loss of control.... everyone is acutely aware of this. We've all experienced it.
That is not what happened here.

Commands never entered from users client were being executed. For instance, I and others were not retreating units, never retreated a single unit yet units would mysteriously retreat by themselves. Lag/desynch can not make up commands out of whole cloth. Buildings would be built/units built when NO command was given to do that. Units would move around the boards themselves, without intput or command--it wasn't a lag effect or desynch effect of log-jam of commands effect. These were new commands, which felt deliberately made, intentional, not random.

Everything that happened screams scripts.

............

Everything that happened screams scripts.

If you are alleging cheating, this thread has no place on these forums and will be screened.

See the site rules in the bottom right corner of your screen, which give you the address to report cheating, direct to Relic.

I can't definitively say. That's why I wanted to open a discussion and at least bring awareness of this issue. I'm only trying to stress that the desych or lag isn't the culprit, in my opinion.

Please don't delete or lock, maybe someone well informed will drop in and enlighten us.

I understand what you might be feeling L337, but I can tell you that I am almost certain this is how the servers interact with lag.

Especially in larger games (your replay is a 4v4) where as many as eight people from around the world are connected to each other. I have had games that had as much as a 20 second delay between commands and reactions.

What happens in these sorts of situations gets really really glitchy. Things like where your mouse was when it clicked lags behind, how and when units move and react to calculations gets screwy, and most of all, it is never consistent. The delays will fluctuate immensely from any given point in time.

For example you will attempt to retreat a unit, select another unit and tell it to move into cover, then spend time trying to reverse a tank out of danger. However, you hitting "t" for retreat on the first unit doesn't register until you have the tank selected. Because of the delay, 20 seconds later your tank suddenly has its crew jump out (we're pretending you're playing USF now).

The second unit then moves where you were telling your tank to go, and the first unit has long since been wiped because it never retreated.

Let me tell you, lag REALLY bungles up how everything functions ingame. I've experienced very similar things as you and only after I went over the games have I been able to piece together what is happening.

I could be wrong, but these are my experiences and perspective on the matter.

Lag/desynch doesn't explain actions that were never input in the first place. To be clear: It's not a matter of 20 second (or whatever) delay and being confused by delayed actions on top of recent actions (desynch log jam of commands).

It's a matter of commands never given (not once) being executed.
If you're trying to tell me that lag and/or desynch can cause commands never once triggered by my client, at any time during the match, to fire off on their own at random, then that is a huge bug.

I saw this happen 2 times. It really feels like someone is screwing with you, units don't follow your orders and randomly retreat even if you never ordered it. It's probably a bug on the servers, maybe it sends actions of a different player to your units.

I had this too, I thought I was nuts!

To the folks saying its input lag, please pipe down. It's really nothing of the sort, not unless the game UI and raster coordinates can become out of sync with the actual commands.

I had it bad on Lienne forest a few weeks ago. 1 particular rifle squad would retreat constantly and when it wasn't retreating, it would walk to a point on the south side of the map in the corner, near the green cover of the forest VP. Same point every time. Not once was it ever ordered there, and despite being commanded multiple times to go elsewhere or stop it wouldn't. It would stop (or do as commanded) for about 5/10 seconds then, walk off on its mission to the point in the forest. Often whilst still selected!

Another weird bug....