Should OKW be able to build caches?

They have shit tons of MP because they don't have the fuel to spend the MP on other things. While every other faction is making armor your sitting around twiddling your thumbs just pumping out more infantry.

Which do you think it least cancerous? OKW being able to get some more armor, or the continued prevelance of giant hordes of anti-everything infantry that we have now?

MP drains are good! And OKW should have more of them.



Nobody is saying remove the resource penalty. OKW already can benefit from caches are a reduced rate, this is just asking of they should be allowed to make them instead of relying on Ostheer team mates.

and they have a fuel penalty because their vehicles are so strong. if you allow them to build caches you're effectively removing the resource penalty. if they're allowed to use caches their fuel costs have to get readjusted.

and they have a fuel penalty because their vehicles are so strong. if you allow them to build caches you're effectively removing the resource penalty. if they're allowed to use caches their fuel costs have to get readjusted.

If they are spending MP to get caches then they are spending MP they won't be spending on Obers, more volks, ect. I think giving OKW caches but at a higher price (say 320) would be okay, but I would still prefer Blitz trucks which only benefit the player and are much more thematically correct to the design of the faction.

IIRC OKW still only gets 66% income from cachces, it's not like they get full fuel income from them. You wouldn't need to readjust OKW's unit prices at all.

If they are spending MP to get caches then they are spending MP they won't be spending on Obers, more volks, ect. I think giving OKW caches but at a higher price (say 320) would be okay, but I would still prefer Blitz trucks which only benefit the player and are much more thematically correct to the design of the faction.

IIRC OKW still only gets 66% income from cachces, it's not like they get full fuel income from them. You wouldn't need to readjust OKW's unit prices at all.

the problem is that they have a surplus of mp and so spending that surplus to get fuel, the thing they're short of anyway, defeats the point of having a fuel shortage.

i'm sure it could be made balanced but it would defeat a large part of their design and would require unnecessary work that would be better spent rejigging costs/income rates with their current system.

the problem is that they have a surplus of mp and so spending that surplus to get fuel, the thing they're short of anyway, defeats the point of having a fuel shortage.

i'm sure it could be made balanced but it would defeat a large part of their design and would require unnecessary work that would be better spent rejigging costs/income rates with their current system.

They don't magically have more MP than other factions, they have more MP because they have nothing to spend it on. If you got rid of the MP float by giving them MP sinks you would fix far, far more than you would break.

I encourage you to play more games as OKW dude, and how cancerous the MP float is will be quite apparently quickly.

They don't magically have more MP than other factions, they have more MP because they have nothing to spend it on. If you got rid of the MP float by giving them MP sinks you would fix far, far more than you would break.

I encourage you to play more games as OKW dude, and how cancerous the MP float is will be quite apparently quickly.

yes but your proposal is to make those mp sinks generate fuel when the faction is supposed to be fuel starved. why they have that "extra" mp doesn't really matter; they're designed to be fuel starved (and have limited access to half their rooster...) and you want to give them better access in exchange for mp they don't need.

yes but your proposal is to make those mp sinks generate fuel when the faction is supposed to be fuel starved. why they have that "extra" mp doesn't really matter; they're designed to be fuel starved (and have limited access to half their rooster...) and you want to give them better access in exchange for mp they don't need.

They are also supposed to be designed to have uber elite soldiers and tanks or stuff . these days however their units are more or less brought to the same line as the other factions. if you ask me i would ditch their fuel and ammo penalties all together and increase flaktruck fuel cost to 120. see how that works and tweak if needed.

cahces would require a faction re-work/design

yes but your proposal is to make those mp sinks generate fuel when the faction is supposed to be fuel starved. why they have that "extra" mp doesn't really matter; they're designed to be fuel starved (and have limited access to half their rooster...) and you want to give them better access in exchange for mp they don't need.

Which is why people have suggested Opal trucks or other ways that might cost more MP so it would be a trade off, do you want tanks or do you want infantry? Like how it is with every faction instead of having one that has 1 choice, infantry, and nothing else.

Your vastly overestimating the OKW MP float if you think the first thing everyone will do is spam cachces, the OKW float doesn't come into effect until mid game, early game OKW is stretched very thing for MP.

given that the few times i have played them i float ~~1200mp by the time i remembered to build obers... yes, they were large team games and no, that doesn't work as well in smaller games, especially with the recent nerfs, but seriously, that's a fuck ton of mp to be floating because i forgot to build things because i was doing fine with what i have.

given that the few times i have played them i float ~~1200mp by the time i remembered to build obers... yes, they were large team games and no, that doesn't work as well in smaller games, especially with the recent nerfs, but seriously, that's a fuck ton of mp to be floating because i forgot to build things because i was doing fine with what i have.

Normally around that mid game you would be starting to build tanks, in my competitive AT's I don't float that much MP, but it is noticeable that I will often have 600+ thanks to not having fuel for tanks.

Remember; the float happens for a reason, that reason has to do with not having any MP drains such as support weapons or tanks as well as lacking things like caches. You should be rewarded for intelligently spending MP, not allowed to hoard it to replace entire armies because you can't spend it on anything.

I voted no.

Though there should be more poll options:

YES

MAYBE - Depending on what they give up to get it

NO



They are supposed to be a fuel and munition starved function; if people don't want to build Raketens and LeIGs that's their problem

No for Caches, but for extra-expensive Opels I'm open to it. Opels are very fragile, don't lock sectors, and only benefit the owner.

Absolutely not, not without a massive overhaul of the entire fraction. Stick them into linear tiers, slow down their teching, bump up the arrival time of all their vehicles and call them Ostheer #2.BetterThan1.

OKW are allowed so much alarmingly powerful and early crap under the already tenuous excuse of 'oh but they're fuel starved'. Which is already used to very suspect purposes around on the forums, but I digress.

Yes, OKW have a relatively large MP availability because they don't buy a lot of tanks. And yet, they're not suffering in the win rate department. No faction in the game has such a huge tendency towards MP float and yet suffers absolutely nothing for it. Probably something to do with their T0 having a core infantry unit that has heavy AT, AT guns, builders with universal 30muni mines and some of the best commander units in the game.

They were designed expressly to have a small number of tanks but for them to be very well supported. To the point that OKW infantry is obscenely good at its job. They've already toned down the muni penalty they used to have (which is an indirect fuel availability buff if you plan on converting). OKW hurt for absolutely nothing. Not AI, not AT, not artillery. All they don't have is a flamer for burning houses, because getting units out of buildings is easy as piss when you can use T0 assault rifles into 10 muni nade spam building wrecking.


If you want OKW to be able to circumvent their fuel penalty the faction must be re-designed to allow for it. Shrecks are going to have to go from volks, for a start, to be replaced with a faust ability (at vet 1 probably. Lolmurrica). Tiering costs are going to have to go up, because their Tech is inordinately cheap if you start letting them have more fuel. Etc. etc.

Nobody is saying remove the resource penalty. OKW already can benefit from caches are a reduced rate, this is just asking of they should be allowed to make them instead of relying on Ostheer team mates.

As I said before the ability to build caches would neglect OKW resource penalty.
Resource penalty is a feature unique to OKW and to compensate this OKW has access to resource conversion, cheaper tech, cheaper upgrades, better, more specialized units, very balanced tiers with AI and AT options in each, Panther as a stock tank, 5th level of Veteran, Trucks that are able to lock down territory etc.
All this and many more would have to be reworked to allow for resource caches. I don't know how they work in team games but I don't think as a OKW player you get full benefit from them. I have never noticed drastically higher income in 2v2 besides team games work different then 1v1 and in this mode OKW player would gain unfair advantage if nothing was to be done to compensate.


So to repeat myself, no I don't think giving them caches is a good idea, quite the opposite. There is a reason why ammunition income has been reduced to 80% after lifting it up to 100% a patch earlier. Lets not make the same mistakes twice.

Very interesting results. Thanks for participating.

As I said before the ability to build caches would neglect OKW resource penalty.
Resource penalty is a feature unique to OKW and to compensate this OKW has access to resource conversion, cheaper tech, cheaper upgrades, better, more specialized units, very balanced tiers with AI and AT options in each, Panther as a stock tank, 5th level of Veteran, Trucks that are able to lock down territory etc.
All this and many more would have to be reworked to allow for resource caches. I don't know how they work in team games but I don't think as a OKW player you get full benefit from them. I have never noticed drastically higher income in 2v2 besides team games work different then 1v1 and in this mode OKW player would gain unfair advantage if nothing was to be done to compensate.


So to repeat myself, no I don't think giving them caches is a good idea, quite the opposite. There is a reason why ammunition income has been reduced to 80% after lifting it up to 100% a patch earlier. Lets not make the same mistakes twice.

The trucks can't lock down territory, Iv already said that OKW gets reduced income from caches (because they get reduced income from ALL sources), and the units are better because they more expensive in the case of ones like the Stuka.

The upgrades sure as hell aren't cheap either. If OKW could make caches there would be literally 0 difference than how it was before because in every game mode above one's they can benefit from caches (at a reduced rate) anyway.

If you want OKW to be able to circumvent their fuel penalty the faction must be re-designed to allow for it. Shrecks are going to have to go from volks, for a start, to be replaced with a faust ability (at vet 1 probably. Lolmurrica). Tiering costs are going to have to go up, because their Tech is inordinately cheap if you start letting them have more fuel. Etc. etc.

I to, have forgotten that OKW can play alongside Ostheer and benefit from caches in every game mode above 1's. Obviously this requries a radical redesign. Caches wouldn't get rid of OKW's fuel penalty.

No for Caches, but for extra-expensive Opels I'm open to it. Opels are very fragile, don't lock sectors, and only benefit the owner.

Yeah Opal trucks make more sense, also are more risky but offer better reward.

They are supposed to be a fuel and munition starved function; if people don't want to build Raketens and LeIGs that's their problem

For the 50th time, OKW doesn't receive full income from caches.

You have resource conversion. That's OKW variant of resource caches.

You have resource conversion. That's OKW variant of resource caches.

Except your trading fuel for muni or muni for fuel. Not investing MP to lock down a point while getting extra resources.

You can't even compare the two, and your suspect knowledge of OKW is really disturbing.

I voted no since there is no exception for things like doctrinal abilities.

Things like Opel Truck, or similar abilities, would fit more nicely to OKW's design theme, for example, a commander that gives no special unit call-ins but grants economic benefits/ global upgrades. Maybe even a more radical version of resource conversion, where eve more Fuel gained for even less Munitions, etc.

The thing about ideas like Opel Trucks is that it lets the OKW spend their MP for better economy, which at the moment is something they have no access or control to besides just capturing points. This encourages alternate strategies besides blobbing, which requires you to spend that unspent MP anyways. This is why OKW players can and will spam infantry- there is literally nothing else they can do for effect. They can't use it to consolidate territory like caches, they can't boost their economy like caches, and they can't support other friendly players, like caches. Caches themselves wouldn't work, but a means to spend that MP towards bolstering your position in the map- besides infantry blobbing- is the solution.

Even better: Opel Truck is found in only ONE commander in the entire game, so it's hardly one of those "make them more like Ostheer" sort of solutions, like Redistribute Resources, which doesn't touch MP.

Hell if you think about it, if Relic was remotely interested in dealing with OKW blob, then it should have been manpower that gets penalty and fuel gets 100% or even a bonus to compensate. Players eventually want to go for Panthers or KTs, few of them really just prefer to win the game using just infantry. Many do because in the meantime, there's no other viable strategy. And no, spamming infantry guns isn't a alternate strategy to winning, it's a strategy to waste resources and time for nothing gained. Racketenwerfer isn't versatile like Volks so they're hardly used in comparison as well.

Your knowledge of OKW is simply bias.
I stated exactly why resource caches won't happened. Gave you examples. Refer to these posts. You still didn't provide me with any reasonable argument except for "because I want to".
There are reasons for certain things being as they are and for them to change would require far more than simple adding or removing feature.
For the very same reason I am oppose to giving Conscripts any form of non doctrinal AI upgrade or introducing heavy armour to USF.
You don't see bigger picture. All you care about is your beloved OKW and how to make things simpler or easier for you.
What's more ironic because you play mostly large team games you don't even realize your favorite army potential and true strength of its units.
As an example your recent comments regarding officer.
I suspect I have more in depth knowledge of OKW then you despite having far less games played as this faction.