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Ostheer Artillery: 105mm, Panzerwerfer

10 Apr 2015, 19:25 PM
#21
avatar of S0_L337_1T_HURTS

Posts: 99

AXIS indirect fire is ultra difficult to obtain (tech cost) and just isn't useful. SOVIET has best indirect fire, early, mid, late.

For more on this exact discussion, see thread:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/33038/indirect-fire-way-too-imbalanced
8 Jul 2015, 23:59 PM
#22
avatar of Cardboard Tank

Posts: 978

I´m resurrecting my thread from the dead, because I can.

The last patch was supposed to make new strategies viable. I still don´t see Ostheer artillery being a viable option.

Tbh even the once mighty B4 has disappeared from the game. Rumor has it that there is a 152 available for Russians. I yet have to see it. This all can´t be intended.
9 Jul 2015, 00:56 AM
#23
avatar of ThoseDeafMutes

Posts: 1026

Static arty is only intermittently useful in a 1v1 context, which tends to be quite mobile and favouring aggressive action. In team games there's way too much risk of going up against CAS since it's part of the Ostheer Meta. If not CAS, then at least one player will probably be Elefant doctrine for recon+stukka bombing strike. These will both render the 152 / B4 / any static emplacement useless.

On the German side, there's less to worry about in terms of instant hardcounters, but IL2 bombing strikes are not "uncommon", and the allies usually have better indirect in the form of Priests or Katyushas. You don't often win an artillery duel.
9 Jul 2015, 01:06 AM
#24
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

I´m resurrecting my thread from the dead, because I can.

The last patch was supposed to make new strategies viable. I still don´t see Ostheer artillery being a viable option.

Tbh even the once mighty B4 has disappeared from the game. Rumor has it that there is a 152 available for Russians. I yet have to see it. This all can´t be intended.


Both the Pwerfer and 105mm seem pointless. I did play a 3v3 where I lost one or two squads to a 105, but it still seemed not worth it. I've tried a Pwerfer, and it doesn't seem very good unless shooting at something near it. The B4 nerf made it useless, unless you really like pure RNG. I like ML20's but Relic's decision to give everyone CAS means that nobody builds them either.

In short, Ost arty isn't built because it sucks and Soviet arty isn't built because roughly 3 minutes of MP income is eliminated by about 1 minute of combined fuel/ammo income and two clicks of the mouse. Also, there are no doctrines that I know of that have both a heavy tank and on-field arty (besides Counterattack which has a lame KV1 and more lame B4).
9 Jul 2015, 01:07 AM
#25
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

It would be pretty easy to fix the 105mm howitzer, just make it have a very long barrage so while it won't do very much damage per hit it has greater DPS than the other howitzers. The Pwerfer also just needs a durability buff and it's original rocket amount of 16 returned to it and possibly a shorter cooldown.
9 Jul 2015, 01:09 AM
#26
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2015, 01:06 AMGrumpy


lame KV1 and more lame B4


CAS has made the B4 kinda pointless, but it is very much still a good choice. With vet 3 it's accuracy is borderline broken. The KV1 is also a good steal of a tank, 145 fuel for a very tough T34 with better DPS.

EDIT: I should explain; the KV1 has the same gun as the T34/76 but without the "bugged" reload time and with the very good vet bonus's it gets a high vet KV1 can put out a scary amount of DPS while being fast. At vet 3 is has something stupid like a 2.1 second reload.
9 Jul 2015, 01:14 AM
#27
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

Static arty is only intermittently useful in a 1v1 context, which tends to be quite mobile and favouring aggressive action. In team games there's way too much risk of going up against CAS since it's part of the Ostheer Meta. If not CAS, then at least one player will probably be Elefant doctrine for recon+stukka bombing strike. These will both render the 152 / B4 / any static emplacement useless.

On the German side, there's less to worry about in terms of instant hardcounters, but IL2 bombing strikes are not "uncommon", and the allies usually have better indirect in the form of Priests or Katyushas. You don't often win an artillery duel.


Nobody wins an artillery duel. It's an hour of mind-numbing boredom compared to any regular game. If I ever end up on Shittard, it's because I forgot to do vetoes.
9 Jul 2015, 01:43 AM
#28
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

9 Jul 2015, 02:56 AM
#29
avatar of Rogers

Posts: 1210 | Subs: 1

The German Howitzer needs its Vet fixed. According to Cruzz, Sib and a few other people Vet 2 breaks Vet 1 or something like that. Its a pretty terrible unit. Something needs to be done, same with the Werfer as it is nowhere near as good as the katy.
9 Jul 2015, 03:03 AM
#30
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

howitzers should be better across the board, and the gun shouldn't be getting instagibbed by 1 click of a stuka strike or AT bombing run
9 Jul 2015, 03:09 AM
#31
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

howitzers should be better across the board, and the gun shouldn't be getting instagibbed by 1 click of a stuka strike or AT bombing run


Making the howitzers able to (slowly) move would fix this issue pretty handily while punishing bad micro still.
9 Jul 2015, 03:10 AM
#32
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

would be a lot easier to just buff the HP of the gun so it can be repaired after getting nuked
9 Jul 2015, 03:11 AM
#33
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

soviet 152mm was great before because of precision strike and no osteer use 105mm because of precision strike will 1 shot decrew it or destroy it

now since precision strike is gone, i can see some use of 105mm and less ppl using 152mm, however both art is piece of S**t atm, it got counter by any off map art, or rocket barrage, it is average like 1-3 time ability use life span, and it is very hard for them do deal 600mp damage during that time, so they is 1 of the 2 worst mp investment i think, the other one is flak emplacements
9 Jul 2015, 03:15 AM
#34
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

would be a lot easier to just buff the HP of the gun so it can be repaired after getting nuked


Howitzers being able to move around is a good idea independent of the Stuka strike/AT strafe. It would make them a lot more viable.

now since precision strike is gone, i can see some use of 105mm and less ppl using 152mm, however both art is piece of S**t atm, it got counter by any off map art, or rocket barrage, it is average like 1-3 time ability use life span, and it is very hard for them do deal 600mp damage during that time, so they is 1 of the 2 worst mp investment i think, the other one is flak emplacements


Fun Fact: the only unit in the game that still has precision strike is the 152mm howitzer.
9 Jul 2015, 03:20 AM
#35
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622



Fun Fact: the only unit in the game that still has precision strike is the 152mm howitzer.


oh my, i thought all precision strike is gone, but still no point use it ask okw have walking stuka to counter it, and yes make it move able like 10sec to tear it down with move speed of 75% of at gun 10sec to setup at new location could be great.
9 Jul 2015, 05:15 AM
#36
avatar of Wygrif

Posts: 278

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jul 2015, 01:14 AMGrumpy


Nobody wins an artillery duel. It's an hour of mind-numbing boredom compared to any regular game. If I ever end up on Shittard, it's because I forgot to do vetoes.


This. Weak arty is good for the game.
9 Jul 2015, 05:27 AM
#37
avatar of vietnamabc

Posts: 1063

About the LefH why doesn't Relic just revert its change: it is just fine before arty change, now I would rather buy 3 mortar than use this crap arty.
9 Jul 2015, 05:32 AM
#38
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954

soviet 152mm was great before because of precision strike and no osteer use 105mm because of precision strike will 1 shot decrew it or destroy it

now since precision strike is gone, i can see some use of 105mm and less ppl using 152mm, however both art is piece of S**t atm, it got counter by any off map art, or rocket barrage, it is average like 1-3 time ability use life span, and it is very hard for them do deal 600mp damage during that time, so they is 1 of the 2 worst mp investment i think, the other one is flak emplacements


ML-20 is anything but a POS. Were it not for Stuka, I'd have one on most games. When someone is using Panzer tactician (or whatever it is called), if they stay too long and get low on health then I'll barrage the retreat path because ML-20 does 240 damage. I've even killed a retreating KT with it. It does have precision strike, and while it will not kill a tank unless less than 240 health, it does kill the repairing unit. At vet 3, the reload is okay.

Being able to slowly move on-field arty would eliminate my objection to the Stuka (but still not the ammo conversion amount in CAS). The siren gives a lot of warning.
9 Jul 2015, 05:37 AM
#39
avatar of Porygon

Posts: 2779

LefH18 when it was good, was completely fine, and now they nerfed it into a total shit.

May the RNGgod smile at you let that LefH18 vet into vet 1 then it has some use, but god knows how hard it is.

Peewerfer is a complete trash, 81mm mortar do an even better job.

Kaitofs posts hurt my brain


When did those NOT hurting your brain?
This guy fanatically biased to Allies, posting shit like 24/7.

I seriously protest against the mod permanently banned lolcake but not him, they simply have no difference except their biased target.
9 Jul 2015, 05:41 AM
#40
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1954



CAS has made the B4 kinda pointless, but it is very much still a good choice. With vet 3 it's accuracy is borderline broken. The KV1 is also a good steal of a tank, 145 fuel for a very tough T34 with better DPS.

EDIT: I should explain; the KV1 has the same gun as the T34/76 but without the "bugged" reload time and with the very good vet bonus's it gets a high vet KV1 can put out a scary amount of DPS while being fast. At vet 3 is has something stupid like a 2.1 second reload.


With only 80 penetration at range and a range of 40, it can be tough to get them vet in anything above a 2v2. I hadn't noticed the reload, but then didn't use them much anyway.

I did have someone use a couple of them against me in a 1v1. They still die to JP4, raketen and shreks fast. Having someone shoot B4 at Panzer Schwerer can be somewhat worrisome, but, in that game on Semoisky, it didn't actually hit anything.
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