M10 Cost

I loved them before and they were pretty good against ostheer T3 and OKW pumas, and this doctrine was pretty good before. Now I imagine it's a top doctrine for USF. I just imagine because I didn't play it after patch (how do I miss it?) but I can't wait to test the new M10s.

The doctrines still pretty Meh. The armor call ins work now but neither is all that great and both just act as an alternative to M4s and Jackson. The artillery is niche only really good to deny your opponent an area, but is pretty RNG dependant on if you will actually hit anything even if they stay in the AoE. The biggest thing holding this doctrine back though is the advanced vehicle crew ability being pretty much useless which pretty much makes it feel like a doctrine with only 4 abilities.

M10 need accuracy buff. It misses shots too often.

I'd say maybe consider removing the crush ability like they did with the T-70. It's insane crushing is a side-effect of it's speed, and we cannot take away it's speed.

M10 need accuracy buff. It misses shots too often.

The M10 has 0.06 accuracy up close, giving it the highest accuracy ingame, shared by other tank destroyers/hunters such as the Jackson, Panther, Jagdpanzer, and Jagdtiger, and higher than other TDs such as the Elefant and SU85. Accuracy at range is 0.03, higher than all regular tanks and only lower than the OKW Panther, Jackson, Jagdpanzer, equal to the OH Panther, and still higher than the Elefant and SU85. Using HVAP rounds gives it 0.04 accuracy, which is (again) the highest accuracy at range ingame, shared with the Jackson w/HVAP, Jagdpanzer, and Jagdtiger.

What's more, it has a 0.75 accuracy modifier on the move, unique to USF tanks, compared to all other faction's 0.5 modifier. Again, another advantage.

Conclusion- You're incorrect.

Accuracy at range is 0.03, higher than all regular tanks and only lower than the OKW Panther, Jackson, Jagdpanzer,
Conclusion- You're incorrect.

Thats what i am talking about. TD misses shots at medium tanks at maximum range simply too often.

Considering it's a doctrine specific call in tank destroyer with no armour, average health, no sighting and no anti infantry(apart from crush). I see no reason why it shouldn't be really cost effective against Tanks.

However it's ability to crush infantry as potently as it does is just awful and shouldn't exist. M10 should be hard countered by infantry. Remove it's crush and it'll be in a much better spot.

Thats what i am talking about. TD misses shots at medium tanks at maximum range simply too often.

0.03 means 2/3 chance of hitting a tank, and ~80% chance of hitting a large tank at max range. 0.04 means a 90% chance of hitting medium armor at max range, and a 100% chance of hitting a large tank at max range. Definitely not inadequate.

Hit stop just before it completes reload and fires, that improves accuracy significantly (applies to every vehicle). It doesn't need to come to a complete halt, as long as you hit stop. This applies to every situation- if you know the approximate reload, even if you're chasing a target vehicle, you're better off hitting 'stop' for a split second just before your own vehicle fires instead of just pursuing at full speed.

0.03 means 2/3 chance of hitting a tank, and ~80% chance of hitting a large tank at max range. 0.04 means a 90% chance of hitting medium armor at max range, and a 100% chance of hitting a large tank at max range. Definitely not inadequate.

Hit stop just before it completes reload and fires, that improves accuracy significantly (applies to every vehicle). It doesn't need to come to a complete halt, as long as you hit stop. This applies to every situation- if you know the approximate reload, even if you're chasing a target vehicle, you're better off hitting 'stop' for a split second just before your own vehicle fires instead of just pursuing at full speed.

You can't really say that without including target size for the accurate comparison.
Not all mediums and heavies have same target size, which means same 0.03 and 0.04 accuracy will give different results based on target as well as distance.

You can't really say that without including target size for the accurate comparison.
Not all mediums and heavies have same target size, which means same 0.03 and 0.04 accuracy will give different results based on target as well as distance.

I'm pretty sure roughly you are going to hit more than 75% of the time. Give or take a few percent. eh?

0.03 means 2/3 chance of hitting a tank, and ~80% chance of hitting a large tank at max range.

Only 70%. Should be 90% and 99% because it's TD not t70.

Only 70%. Should be 90% and 99% because it's TD not t70.

You do realize what you are saying means that by this logic all other tds in game should have 90-99% accuracy. Because you know TD's never ever missed their target. While we're at it should dedicated ai vehicles never miss infantry? Such a radical change is not only unneeded, but obviously imbalanced. But surely you only meant for american vehicles to get this buff, not the german TD's. Amr?

maybe the m10 has significantly worse scatter than other vehicles ( i wouldnt know)

You can't really say that without including target size for the accurate comparison.
Not all mediums and heavies have same target size, which means same 0.03 and 0.04 accuracy will give different results based on target as well as distance.

I used 22 for regular tanks, and 26 for large tanks.

All mediums except those based on the sherman chassis are 22. Sherman variants and vehicles based on the sherman are 23, I guess as a slight nod towards the high profile of the Sherman historically. The Jagdpanzer stands out with 17 size, the Stug at 20, and the SU85 at 22. I'd suggest equalizing all three of these low-profile vehicles at 17.

All heavies are 26, except the KV1, KV8, and Sturmtiger, which aren't really heavies to begin with ingame. They are sized at 24, same as the Panther and the Jackson.

Both 0.03 and 0.04 stats are for max range accuracy of the Wolverine, with and without HVAP respectively. Regardless, with only a single size-unit of difference between all mediums, it's fair to say that the results can be regarded as accurate (especially since all german mediums have 22 size).

Only 70%. Should be 90% and 99% because it's TD not t70.

That would mean there'd be no reason at all to manage the movement of the vehicle while firing, which would kinda take away a little intended micro trick in the game.. not to mention that laser-locking guided shells from 50 or 60 range is a silly concept anyway.

You do realize what you are saying means that by this logic all other tds in game should have 90-99% accuracy. Because you know TD's never ever missed their target.

Jagdpanzer seems never miss shot on medium tanks even at hight range. Why not reduce it accuracy to wolverine level, it will be most useless unit ever than.

Jagdpanzer seems never miss shot on medium tanks even at hight range. Why not reduce it accuracy to wolverine level, it will be most useless unit ever than.

Jagdpanzer OP

Jagdpanzer seems never miss shot on medium tanks even at hight range. Why not reduce it accuracy to wolverine level, it will be most useless unit ever than.

If you had taken the time to read, or indeed if you can read at all, I just pointed out the the JP4 has the same close range accuracy as the M10, and with HVAP activated the M10 has equal long range accuracy, AND has higher moving accuracy modifiers than the JP4.

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This thing has the crush ability of the old T-70. If your opponent is good, you might as well insta-retreat when it shows up. Coupled with rifle-blob and good AT-power, you're just way behind when it comes out.
I just had a game where I barely had fuel for T3 tech when the first M10 went on a steamroll crushing spree and deleting my army and fresh T2 vehicles.

I like that the m10 is the most cost efficent TD in the game.


Too cheap now, though, slightly, but its okay.

However it's ability to crush infantry as potently as it does is just awful and shouldn't exist.

Disagree. It's fun and it should exist.

Increasing M10 fuel cost will not make me want to call it in, I would just go straight for Jackson. M10 is not too impressive in terms of DPS compare to Jackson, but it makes it up with cheap cost and call in. This doctrine finally got some room to shine and I think M10 is in good place.