Hello Folks,
So I am enjoying the new M10 in this patch. The unit itself comes in at a bargain basement price of 85 Fuel. It has no problem at all tackling medium armor alone. And two of them at 170 fuel can beat the living crap out of a Panther.
I do enjoy the new performance of it but I cant help thinking it may be too cheap. Personally I like it much more then the buffed Jackson.
Perhaps raise the fuel cost to 90?
What are your thoughts?
M10 Cost
6 Apr 2015, 19:55 PM
#1
Posts: 1637
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 19:57 PM
#2
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
It does nothing more then AT really.
Literally all of units of similar cost with medium classification(plus pumas) can fight both inf and armor to a point, this one is exclusively armor.
Don't think the change is needed here and anymore fuel cost and it would not be good idea to get it over jacksons.
Literally all of units of similar cost with medium classification(plus pumas) can fight both inf and armor to a point, this one is exclusively armor.
Don't think the change is needed here and anymore fuel cost and it would not be good idea to get it over jacksons.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Apr 2015, 19:59 PM
#3
Posts: 1637
It does nothing more then AT really.
Literally all of units of similar cost with medium classification(plus pumas) can fight both inf and armor to a point, this one is exclusively armor.
Don't think the change is needed here and anymore fuel cost and it would not be good idea to get it over jacksons.
Oh but its crush sir. Its crush is exquisite. Puma cant do that
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 19:59 PM
#4
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Bannedjacksons and m10s are some of the most cost effective tanks in the game for what they do.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
6 Apr 2015, 20:04 PM
#5
Posts: 1637
jacksons and m10s are some of the most cost effective tanks in the game for what they do.
I am still not sold on the new Jack but I never really cared for it anyway. Too slow and too large and too fragile for its cost and purpose.
But the M10 is cheap, fast as all hell, Smaller Target Size. Perfect for flanking and hit and runs. And now has more health. Two of them cost 170 fuel and have a higher HP pool then the Jack and can get up close and personal where their reduced Pen isnt an issue. All the while two of them hitting at 320 a Volley. And can usually get away clean.
I personally love the play because its rewarded Micro but still I cant shake the feeling it may be too cheap for this. I mean poor Panzer IVs stand 0 chance in hell.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 20:07 PM
#6
Posts: 300
If anything its CP cost needs to be lower. Also the doctrine as a whole is still crap so im not gonna bother.
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6 Apr 2015, 20:07 PM
#7
Posts: 1439
Hello Folks,
So I am enjoying the new M10 in this patch. The unit itself comes in at a bargain basement price of 85 Fuel. It has no problem at all tackling medium armor alone. And two of them at 170 fuel can beat the living crap out of a Panther.
I do enjoy the new performance of it but I cant help thinking it may be too cheap. Personally I like it much more then the buffed Jackson.
Perhaps raise the fuel cost to 90?
What are your thoughts?
I was having similar thoughts.
6 Apr 2015, 20:09 PM
#8
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned
I am still not sold on the new Jack but I never really cared for it anyway. Too slow and too large and too fragile for its cost and purpose.
But the M10 is cheap, fast as all hell, Smaller Target Size. Perfect for flanking and hit and runs. And now has more health. Two of them cost 170 fuel and have a higher HP pool then the Jack and can get up close and personal where their reduced Pen isnt an issue. All the while two of them hitting at 320 a Volley. And can usually get away clean.
I personally love the play because its rewarded Micro but still I cant shake the feeling it may be too cheap for this. I mean poor Panzer IVs stand 0 chance in hell.
Tank on tank
M10 > panzer4. For 40 fuel less. Poor stug struggles with a single t34/76.
Not screaming OP, yadada "DEDICATED TANK DESTROYER" (infantry tread mulcher).
Just no teching, higher pen, more range, great speed, ability to just magnestize infantry into the treads. Just for 80 less health, no ai.
Would appreciate a panzer4 pen buff to 130.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
6 Apr 2015, 20:10 PM
#9
Posts: 322
It does nothing more then AT really.
It has the best crush in the game. It is literally faster than a T-70.
But other than that i think its fine.. Need to see more games with it.
Its good that it's viable now. it was shit before, Now its in a good spot i feel.
6 Apr 2015, 20:11 PM
#10
Posts: 1637
If anything its CP cost needs to be lower. Also the doctrine as a whole is still crap so im not gonna bother.
Demos? M10 crush machine plus now Excellent Anti tank that I killed a KT with? Bulldozer that gives absolutley 0 fucks about Shrek Blobs? The Offmap sucks but thats about it. I have always loved Armor. It gives the USF a viable call in only meta with the M10 buff. That first M10 is fuel Free if you didnt go Major. It arrives right after the Stug E and hard counters the CRAP out of it. Also right around the time the first P4 hits which it also counters quite well.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 20:17 PM
#11
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Tank on tank
M10 > panzer4.
that isnt true
M10 = P4
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
6 Apr 2015, 20:21 PM
#12
Posts: 1637
that isnt true
M10 = P4
You think so? I usually wait till armor hits the field before my Doctrine Choice and ill tell you every time I see an Early P4 I pick armored and call in that M10 and LOL the bastard. Unless that P4 is heavily supported it will not escape and the M10 always has the first shot advantage. A few blows and its Vet 1 then the P4 becomes paper. If RNG screws me cool PEACE OUT because its so much faster. All the P4 has on it is AI from its guns and MGs IMHO.
I feel guilty using the new M10 for what I pay.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 20:25 PM
#13
Posts: 322
that isnt true
M10 = P4
In this respect (Cost only)
I feel like this is kinda bullshit considering p4 costs 125 fu and you have to tech for it.
6 Apr 2015, 20:44 PM
#14
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Permanently Banned
that isnt true
M10 = P4
Could you explain? Both the m10 and the panzer4 require 4 shots to kill if we are talking standard 160 damage model. But the m10 has more range, and more speed. And costs significantly less. Panzer4 may have like a slightly higher chance to penetrate. But that is negligible considering the m10 can just kite/force panzer4 to close the distance.
As far as I can see the panzer4 is only at an advantage upon reaching vet 2. Because it can occasionally bounce. But it still does nothing to address costs and range.
1337 h4X0R, dank memes
axis
6 Apr 2015, 20:47 PM
#15
Posts: 1637
Could you explain? Both the m10 and the panzer4 require 4 shots to kill if we are talking standard 160 damage model. But the m10 has more range, and more speed. And costs significantly less. Panzer4 may have like a slightly higher chance to penetrate. But that is negligible considering the m10 can just kite/force panzer4 to close the distance.
As far as I can see the panzer4 is only at an advantage upon reaching vet 2. Because it can occasionally bounce. But it still does nothing to address costs and range.
Not to mention that the M10s Vet 1 helps with the P4s Vet 2....and its easier to get.
The PTRS's are fine as they are. Whenever i'm up against Guard Infantry, I always have to be careful with my vehicles or the Guards will completely destroy them. Good range, good damage and fairly cheap; if anything, the PTRS should nerfed since it's ridiculously good for the price. Even in the hands of Conscripts, the PTRS's are extremely potent.
6 Apr 2015, 21:08 PM
#16
Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2
Permanently Banned
Could you explain? Both the m10 and the panzer4 require 4 shots to kill if we are talking standard 160 damage model. But the m10 has more range, and more speed. And costs significantly less. Panzer4 may have like a slightly higher chance to penetrate. But that is negligible considering the m10 can just kite/force panzer4 to close the distance.
As far as I can see the panzer4 is only at an advantage upon reaching vet 2. Because it can occasionally bounce. But it still does nothing to address costs and range.
They are equal in performance
m10 = p4
they are not in cost
m10 > p4
u cant kite a p4 with an m10. its turret is too fast, unless u use its vet ability
additionally. letting an m10 kill a p4 is a learn how to support ur units issue
There is no recording in all WW2 history of a piat actually knocking off a vehicle. Yes, it was THAT bad.
7 Apr 2015, 06:47 AM
#17
Posts: 1026
The cost is fine, but they should look at its crush ability and find a way to tone it down slightly. The doctrine it comes in as a whole is merely "ok", even in its current state. Ost teching needs looking at, as does Soviet, but the M10 itself is not really an issue. The obvious counters are infantry AT and AT guns, mines etc. Normal stuff for an AT focused tank. If you can make it work, the crushing is great, but that's highly situational.
7 Apr 2015, 07:27 AM
#18
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
It does nothing more then AT really.
Oh yeah? Then you should actually use it, I suggest. Use 2 of 'em, click the hell out of them while rolling into the infamous OKW blob nd see what happens. Your Allied fanboy heart will rise skyhigh and you will love them instantly.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
7 Apr 2015, 07:30 AM
#19
Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1
I loved them before and they were pretty good against ostheer T3 and OKW pumas, and this doctrine was pretty good before. Now I imagine it's a top doctrine for USF. I just imagine because I didn't play it after patch (how do I miss it?) but I can't wait to test the new M10s.
BeefSurge wrote:
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
A lot of people have an image of how they want a faction to play, leading to problems. This is why you have people complaining about lack of Soviet bunkers, why T34/76 sucks, why Cons don't scale, Grens don't get normal grenades, Muricans don't get heavy tank, OKW laser weapons and Die Glock Death Bell, etc.
7 Apr 2015, 07:50 AM
#20
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Not sure if increasing the price will change anything, usually you're waiting for the CP more than for the fuel to call-in it. And what 5 more fuel can do?
Now around M10 vs P4, the M10 is a tank destroyer. Apart from its crushing ability which wasn't probably design at beginning, it has nothing vs infantry. when you buy a P4, you buy it for its good performance vs infantry and armor.
To me, the price is fine, one M10 may win vs a unsupported P4 but you need more than one if the game last long and raising it prices to 90 or 100 wouldn't make sense at all in that perspective.
Now around M10 vs P4, the M10 is a tank destroyer. Apart from its crushing ability which wasn't probably design at beginning, it has nothing vs infantry. when you buy a P4, you buy it for its good performance vs infantry and armor.
To me, the price is fine, one M10 may win vs a unsupported P4 but you need more than one if the game last long and raising it prices to 90 or 100 wouldn't make sense at all in that perspective.
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