CAS needs adjusted

5 flameposts and follow-ups invised for reasons set out in post #140 above

Moving to CoH2 Gameplay

Sorry for that Major, I'll try not to create more work for you in the future.

I think we need to trim down cool down time for the fuel to muni conversion like we did with Elite Troops Training.

I think we need to trim down cool down time for the fuel to muni conversion like we did with Elite Troops Training.

I feel like changing the fuel cost might help - bring it down to like....20 fuel, Increase cool downs, decreasing fuel cost allows for less muni conversion. Decreases the spam but makes it not as costly for OST player in terms of fuel making the increased cool downs fair.

I've been playing Wehrmacht a lot more since OKW isn't viable anymore, and in my opinion, CAS is completely balanced. I'm able to hold off the hordes of Rus and American infantry since I can equip all of my grenadiers with LMG's fairly quickly, all the while supporting my infantry with desperately needed anti infantry strafes and anti-tank strafes. The weakness of this doctrine stems from the fact that you have no heavy tank, so there's no possible way of holding out for a Tiger, which is undoubtedly the best tank available to the Wehrmacht.

CAS is also needed to counter B4's, and other static artillery; without CAS, B4's and etc would have free reign over the battlefield.

How am I supposed to punish this as USF?

This is not rhetorical, it's just of the last 5 autos I played in 1v1, 3 people were using this and I only defeated it once. It wasn't even the strafes that did me, I dodged most of that (got caught once due to pathing issues constipating my sherman; got hit a couple of times with destroyed engine or something similar but that's fair enough), but the SWARMS of LMG grens and PzShrek teams are just fucking disgusting. All that and mines everywhere too. Some players are less mines, but then compensate by spamming the crap out of rifle grenades.

Between the strafes and grenades I feel like this doctrine requires twice the micro to counter than any other doc. Like a neverending quicktime event, Press U+Click to not die.

Your lucky that you have yet encountered a competent luftwaffe supply player in my opinion its 10 times worse.

The Muni convirsion is balanced and has been since it first appeared in commanders with Ostruppen and the original CAS release like 1+ years ago. The only reason it's so popular right now is because it's probably the only reliable way to survive against USF early/midgame along with mechanized assault.

That and that it's flavour of the month thanks to MWNL event.

The only reason CAS is so popular is because it let you have a strong blob before USF or Sov can counter it effectively. its the reason why it is sooo popular in 3vs3 and 4vs4.
You can have 4-5 gren squad full LMG equiped when USF deploy his first Half-track, it means bleeding hard the Allied player with LMG and riflenades before the player can reasonably counter it, at the same time if he went BARs, which delay his half-track, he has probably 1 or 2 BAR. And since you are full of Ammo supply you can reasonably ambush and pin the HT with 2 or 3 faust shots and kill the infantry around with the LMG.

And when hard counters hit the field aka tanks. You have already 2 or 3 pzgrenadiers with double shreck in the blob to kill them and shortly after your bombing strafe.

In fact with CAS doctrine, Ostheer players can play (in 3vs3 and 4vs4 from my experience, dunno 1vs1 and 2vs2) like OKW with an A-move blobs and a minimum of micro. And that's probably why it is so popular today, like OKW A-move design is popular since its deployment.
No more need for micro skill with MG42, snipers, SDFK 251 etc... Blob your guys and roll over the map.

That what CAS propose in its extreme.

Now I know CAS hasn't been design for that, but its the result. If Relic wasn't Relic and actually cares to try to fix stuff before 6 months of abuse, I would suggest to test to change fuel/ammo conversion into MP/ammo conversion. Ostheer can float in Fuel if it hasn't the manpower to build units, it would naturally make the doctine less Blob like.

The only reason CAS is so popular is because it let you have a strong blob before USF or Sov can counter it effectively. its the reason why it is sooo popular in 3vs3 and 4vs4.
You can have 4-5 gren squad full LMG equiped when USF deploy his first Half-track, it means bleeding hard the Allied player with LMG and riflenades before the player can reasonably counter it, at the same time if he went BARs, which delay his half-track, he has probably 1 or 2 BAR. And since you are full of Ammo supply you can reasonably ambush and pin the HT with 2 or 3 faust shots and kill the infantry around with the LMG.

And when hard counters hit the field aka tanks. You have already 2 or 3 pzgrenadiers with double shreck in the blob to kill them and shortly after your bombing strafe.

In fact with CAS doctrine, Ostheer players can play (in 3vs3 and 4vs4 from my experience, dunno 1vs1 and 2vs2) like OKW with an A-move blobs and a minimum of micro. And that's probably why it is so popular today, like OKW A-move design is popular since its deployment.
No more need for micro skill with MG42, snipers, SDFK 251 etc... Blob your guys and roll over the map.

That what CAS propose in its extreme.

Now I know CAS hasn't been design for that, but its the result. If Relic wasn't Relic and actually cares to try to fix stuff before 6 months of abuse, I would suggest to test to change fuel/ammo conversion into MP/ammo conversion. Ostheer can float in Fuel if it hasn't the manpower to build units, it would naturally make the doctine less Blob like.

I don't know if this is really warrants a change in the doctrine. Soviets can blob Guards with PTRS rifles, and USF has been just as much of a blobbing designed faction as OKW. Blobs are, right now, the core infantry strategy of the game, but that is due more to bad blob control units and faction design rather than CAS. And yes I have seen plenty of Ostheer in 2v2 blob Grens and PGrens without CAS.

I don't know if this is really warrants a change in the doctrine. Soviets can blob Guards with PTRS rifles, and USF has been just as much of a blobbing designed faction as OKW. Blobs are, right now, the core infantry strategy of the game, but that is due more to bad blob control units and faction design rather than CAS. And yes I have seen plenty of Ostheer in 2v2 blob Grens and PGrens without CAS.

Soviet PTRS should be nerfed as well, but that's off topic.
USF blob effective? Do you really mean what you just say? Of course anybody can blob with whatever unit he wants, I can blob RE squad if I want and you can blob Pioneer as well if you like. Does it mean it is effective? Does Gren + pzgren blob effective without CAS? Does Rifle blob BARs/Zook effective vs tank?
The answer is no. Those blob are - if not easily - but counterable on a regular base.

OKW blob is effective at any level till almost top10 and now, Ostheer + CAS doctrine as well.

Soviet PTRS should be nerfed as well, but that's off topic.
USF blob effective? Do you really mean what you just say? Of course anybody can blob with whatever unit he wants, I can blob RE squad if I want and you can blob Pioneer as well if you like. Does it mean it is effective? Does Gren + pzgren blob effective without CAS? Does Rifle blob BARs/Zook effective vs tank?
The answer is no. Those blob are - if not easily - but counterable on a regular base.

OKW blob is effective at any level till almost top10 and now, Ostheer + CAS doctrine as well.

There you just stated that the USF blob is not easily countered. My whole point is that allowing the Ostheer to blob is not any different than any other faction in the game. And while a Panzershreck blob is more effective vs Tanks, a BAR/1919LMG blob is more effective vs infantry. Your reasoning for a CAS nerf just seems hypocritical of how the other factions work in the game.

It take 4s to wipe a tank:



Meanwhile when i want to last hit a marked Tiger at the back with my 3 star T-34 with better penetration and faster shooting bulletins i get this sh...

Meanwhile when i want to last hit a marked Tiger at the back with my 3 star T-34 with better penetration and faster shooting bulletins i get this sh...

"T-34 is best generalist tank" says most Axis players.




Its still shit.




Also i've haven't seen a three star T-34 in a long time.