The KT should have never been non-doctrinal.
Until it's tied to a commander, you really can't complain about its godlike armor getting a slight nerf
Is the King Tiger still worth 260 fuel?
4 Apr 2015, 22:46 PM
#141
Posts: 692
4 Apr 2015, 23:07 PM
#142
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
snip
That brick of text is not a replay, I won't even waste my time and nerves reading it.
Its quite simple really.
You claim IS-2 speed is its advantage.
Show a replay where it is to the point where it makes difference(aka where Tiger wouldn't do exactly the same).
A replay, not another theorycrafting brick of useless text about a game you play in your head.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Apr 2015, 00:00 AM
#143
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
The KT should have never been non-doctrinal.
Until it's tied to a commander, you really can't complain about its godlike armor getting a slight nerf
The reason it's non-doctrinal is because everyone would go for the KT commander and nothing else. If it was a call in you would see much more KT's spammed.
Commander units are cheaper than stock units, but are more effective for pretty much no reason.
Its quite simple really.
You claim IS-2 speed is its advantage.
Show a replay where it is to the point where it makes difference(aka where Tiger wouldn't do exactly the same).
A replay, not another theorycrafting brick of useless text about a game you play in your head.
Well if you haven't played the game in I don't know 5 months, then the block of text would seem weird, but IS2 spam meta is huge and has been for a while. I don't need to cherry pick replays when you can just play the game and see for yourself.
Although it's somewhat of a burden to you I know, asking you to know about a game you don't actually play.
5 Apr 2015, 09:24 AM
#144
Posts: 721
KT was almost invicible before the patch.
It was definitely not. Such bullshit. And it's about winning a match, not killing individual units.
So many opinions from people that have not played both sides.
My mommy always said there were no monsters - no real ones - but there are.
5 Apr 2015, 09:54 AM
#145
Posts: 44
It was definitely not. Such bullshit. And it's about winning a match, not killing individual units.
So many opinions from people that have not played both sides.
Exactly using combined arms is not in allied list of tactics I guess. When I played Soviets vs OKW and they got KT by that time I had 2 IS-2s on Vet2 and that is enough to take down anything. Just stun him which IS-2 does perfectly (or just cons nade) and then flank and kill EZ PZ.
5 Apr 2015, 10:22 AM
#146
Posts: 1702
King tiger is still the most efficent anti infantry and anti tank unit in the game. It's still very good againts tanks.
Only thing about the KT is that it's veterancy buffs are absolutely downright pathetic. The king tiger is probaly the only axis vehicle that gets just absolutely useless veterancy stats.
Only thing about the KT is that it's veterancy buffs are absolutely downright pathetic. The king tiger is probaly the only axis vehicle that gets just absolutely useless veterancy stats.
5 Apr 2015, 10:25 AM
#147
Posts: 1217
People need to stop arguing that the King Tiger should be borderline useless because it´s non doctrinal. That doesn´t justify it being a bad unit. Actually it makes things even harder. You can´t just no tech into call ins with it, eventually making it even more expensive.
The worst thing is that the IS-2 is more mobile and thus can escape. The King Tiger can´t.
A unit you can´t afford in 80% of the games anyway and which in the other 20% is a total gamble, isn´t a unit that is going to be used.
The King Tiger was hit multiple times with this patch. Jacksons have better penetration, its armor was nerfed and Blitz was nerfed. This was simply too much. A classic Relic mistake.
Edit:
Agreed. I think it should get its old armor value back with vet 2.
The worst thing is that the IS-2 is more mobile and thus can escape. The King Tiger can´t.
A unit you can´t afford in 80% of the games anyway and which in the other 20% is a total gamble, isn´t a unit that is going to be used.
The King Tiger was hit multiple times with this patch. Jacksons have better penetration, its armor was nerfed and Blitz was nerfed. This was simply too much. A classic Relic mistake.
Edit:
Only thing about the KT is that it's veterancy buffs are absolutely downright pathetic. The king tiger is probaly the only axis vehicle that gets just absolutely useless veterancy stats.
Agreed. I think it should get its old armor value back with vet 2.
5 Apr 2015, 10:31 AM
#148
Posts: 44
People need to stop arguing that the King Tiger should be borderline useless because it´s non doctrinal. That doesn´t justify it being a bad unit. Actually it makes things even harder. You can´t just no tech into call ins with it, eventually making it even more expensive.
The worst thing is that the IS-2 is more mobile and thus can escape. The King Tiger can´t.
A unit you can´t afford in 80% of the games anyway and which in the other 20% is a total gamble, isn´t a unit that is going to be used.
The King Tiger was hit multiple times with this patch. Jacksons have better penetration, its armor was nerfed and Blitz was nerfed. This was simply too much. A classic Relic mistake.
Edit:
Agreed. I think it should get its old armor value back with vet 2.
I dunno why Relic does this mistake like all other companies (Riot, Wargaming, Gaijin) they nerf something that is not OP just becasue comunity asks them to. And then overbuff a unit that was suposed to be underpowered in dealing with the op unit. Therefore making the OP unit underpowered. It lacks any logic!
5 Apr 2015, 10:52 AM
#149
Posts: 959
It seems a lot of people who comment here the most, play the game the least, indeed.
5 Apr 2015, 15:27 PM
#150
Posts: 99
KT as a unit, is not worth its cost.
-Easily flanked
-Easily penned
-No longer a 'breakthrough' unit
-Too expensive as 'defensive unit'
-Tech cost enormous
-Performance-to-cost ratio upside down
-Easily flanked
-Easily penned
-No longer a 'breakthrough' unit
-Too expensive as 'defensive unit'
-Tech cost enormous
-Performance-to-cost ratio upside down
5 Apr 2015, 15:56 PM
#151
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Stepping aside from the nerf which KT did not need in fact (Jackson buff), or down do 400, I see double stanrads here. I mean, 375 armor unit cannot be used to break line becasue it's too weak but IS2 with same armor is very good at breaking lines?
5 Apr 2015, 17:45 PM
#152
Posts: 1439
Yeah I get it. You can't use KT to miraculously get back into lost game anymore because now you have to be careful how you use it.
And this pesky USF finally has a way to compete with Axis heavies late game. How dare them! Its not an instant won when KT hits the field so grow a pair and learn how to utilise it.
And this pesky USF finally has a way to compete with Axis heavies late game. How dare them! Its not an instant won when KT hits the field so grow a pair and learn how to utilise it.
5 Apr 2015, 17:47 PM
#153
Posts: 1217
Stepping aside from the nerf which KT did not need in fact (Jackson buff), or down do 400, I see double stanrads here. I mean, 375 armor unit cannot be used to break line becasue it's too weak but IS2 with same armor is very good at breaking lines?It would only be a double standard if we ignored
1) that you can get out two IS-2s by the time the first KT arrives,
2) the IS-2 is decently mobile and can drive away.
The latter is the most important difference between an intact and a destroyed tank. If you drive into a trap with the KT, it´s going to be destroyed. An IS-2 has always an opportunity to hit the reverse gear and get away safely.
5 Apr 2015, 17:47 PM
#154
Posts: 44
What about giving the Armor to vet bonuses just remove stupid vet 3 ability and just put the default armor value on it's position instead. This way Allies can stop it even after KT is on the field if all the shortcommings are not enough to combat it. When I played Soviets vs KT before patch I never saw KT as invincible gamechanger I think in 90% of the cases it was L2P issue. Company of Heroes 2 has so many ways to deal with tanks including mines, AT guns, AT nades, stuns with penetration, increase of damage combined with T-34 ram and multiple AT abilities. I mean this game brings so many options to table against King Tiger (and against Heavies in general) that it suprised alot that this nerf came.
5 Apr 2015, 19:07 PM
#155
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
King tiger is still the most efficent anti infantry and anti tank unit in the game. It's still very good againts tanks.
Only thing about the KT is that it's veterancy buffs are absolutely downright pathetic. The king tiger is probaly the only axis vehicle that gets just absolutely useless veterancy stats.
The issue isn't that it's bad, it's just that it's roll was shifted significantly to a more defensive focus, which is just dumb because OKW isn't lacking for defensive options at all.
Stepping aside from the nerf which KT did not need in fact (Jackson buff), or down do 400, I see double stanrads here. I mean, 375 armor unit cannot be used to break line becasue it's too weak but IS2 with same armor is very good at breaking lines?
Because 1. Axis squads are easier to 1 shot, and 2. the IS2 is fast and can get up around enemy AT much faster than the KT can.
And this pesky USF finally has a way to compete with Axis heavies late game. How dare them! Its not an instant won when KT hits the field so grow a pair and learn how to utilise it.
It wasn't an instant win when the KT hit the field before, either.
5 Apr 2015, 19:26 PM
#156
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
The issue isn't that it's bad, it's just that it's roll was shifted significantly to a more defensive focus, which is just dumb because OKW isn't lacking for defensive options at all.
Because 1. Axis squads are easier to 1 shot, and 2. the IS2 is fast and can get up around enemy AT much faster than the KT can.
It wasn't an instant win when the KT hit the field before, either.
You seems to forget that KT has more HP and blitz to get out from combat.
5 Apr 2015, 19:32 PM
#157
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
You seems to forget that KT has more HP and blitz to get out from combat.
Blitz in it's nerfed form gives it only slightly more speed than the IS2 does, and still not nearly as much as allied medium tanks have.
Remember; the IS2 is cheap compared to the KT, you can replace it with out that much effort. A IS2 loss isn't a game loss for the Soviet player, a KT loss absolutely is.
It has only 1 Jackson shots worth of HP more, but the same armor with none of the speed or maneuverability of the IS2. The excellent main gun means nothing if you can't use it.
5 Apr 2015, 19:41 PM
#158
Posts: 99
Remember; the IS2 is cheap compared to the KT, you can replace it with out that much effort. A IS2 loss isn't a game loss for the Soviet player, a KT loss absolutely is.
THIS!!!!!!!
5 Apr 2015, 19:43 PM
#159
Posts: 44
Blitz in it's nerfed form gives it only slightly more speed than the IS2 does, and still not nearly as much as allied medium tanks have.
Remember; the IS2 is cheap compared to the KT, you can replace it with out that much effort. A IS2 loss isn't a game loss for the Soviet player, a KT loss absolutely is.
It has only 1 Jackson shots worth of HP more, but the same armor with none of the speed or maneuverability of the IS2. The excellent main gun means nothing if you can't use it.
I agree with nerfed blitz KT can't close the distance hell even before it couldn't now Jacksons just kite him into infinity and penetrate front no problem. Just load AP shells and KT is gone.
5 Apr 2015, 19:57 PM
#160
Posts: 99
Exactly. KT can't get away nor stay and fight. So... lol?
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