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PTRS now OP?

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6 Apr 2015, 18:34 PM
#461
avatar of turbotortoise

Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2015, 18:25 PMRMMLz


AT weapons sniping infantry are bad design, no matter if it's Panzerschreck or PTRS. Although, PTRS should have AI capabilities when it's used by Guards or partizans. But a change like this on you main line infantry is bad. Take a look at OKW. Why we are frustrated by SchreckBlob? Because you turn you AI core unit into laser guided tank hunters. Any drastic change to mainline infantry has the potential to break the game, because they are spammable and cheap.


Gonna say it again:

-PTRS destroying crewed support weapons is not fine.
-Everything else is fine.





Thank you.
6 Apr 2015, 20:20 PM
#462
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439



Because the power of the PTRS is the alpha damage. Walk up, instantly kill several models or make a crew weapon disappear then pull back.

The DPS is shite because it has a long cool down and reload, but if you volley half his army to death in the first shot who cares about reload?



Jagger infantry can do the exactly same thing. If it's fine on one unit then it's fine on another. DPS stands for damage per second. PTRS have abysmal reload which makes their DAMAGE PER SECOND bad.

Ability to evaporate support weapons is completely different matter and that's should be changed. I don't like that horde of Cons can render any kind of weapon team play absolute. I ma not sure however how this can be fixed due to engine limitation.

The other way is to make PTRS decent AT weapon at the expense of their AI capabilities. Going back to PTRS being useless it's not an acceptable solution.



With all fairness it's only one commander that renders PTRS OP because it makes them too common. Maybe adjusting the commander is enough to deal with the problem?
Make Conscripts pay more for their PTRS rifles to limit the number and distribution through out the game.
6 Apr 2015, 20:32 PM
#463
avatar of Trubbbel

Posts: 721

I spammed PTRS in my first match back from easter holiday and my conscripts murdered most things that they encountered. They tripple-vetted soon and then they killed tanks and obers and most things. A KT came by without much support and that was quickly overwhelmed and killed too.

I'll stick with allies until the next patch or if I want a challenge I'll play axis.
6 Apr 2015, 21:16 PM
#464
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1


-PTRS destroying crewed support weapons is not fine.
-Everything else is fine.

^
6 Apr 2015, 22:31 PM
#465
avatar of daspoulos

Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1

Permanently Banned

^

Speaking purely from experience, I have a huge issue with ptrs killing off retreating squads. Units tend to retreat when they are at 1-2 men at low health. So if a ptrs squad is in the retreat path of say a retreating grenadier squad, its almost comparable to shock troopers.

If these changes were to stay, ptrs needs a big nerf vs retreating units, more than standard rifles. And of course fixing how they blow up crew weapons.
6 Apr 2015, 22:49 PM
#466
avatar of Bananainpajamas

Posts: 123

i dont thin ptrs is that much of a problem compared too the fact that no matter how many mistakes are made. cons with ptrs spam is just to cost effective... i think the problem is that cons need to bleed more mp because people just keep making them tell callins no matter how many losses and it still works..
6 Apr 2015, 23:00 PM
#467
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

i dont thin ptrs is that much of a problem compared too the fact that no matter how many mistakes are made. cons with ptrs spam is just to cost effective... i think the problem is that cons need to bleed more mp because people just keep making them tell callins no matter how many losses and it still works..

Tank Hunter Tactics doesn't have call-ins though.

Not that this makes PTRS cons fine...very much doubt Relic would consider upping Cons' reinforcement cost with PTRSes though. There's no upgrades which inflict this upon their users.
aaa
6 Apr 2015, 23:01 PM
#468
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1487


I have a huge issue with ptrs killing off retreating squads. Units tend to retreat when they are at 1-2 men at low health. So if a ptrs squad is in the retreat path of say a retreating grenadier squad, its almost comparable to shock troopers.

If these changes were to stay, ptrs needs a big nerf vs retreating units, more than standard rifles. And of course fixing how they blow up crew weapons.


aliied unit must be OP cuz axis has ability to set defensive positions. And they not OP atm. Tank Hunter commander is well balanced.

I m having opposite issue being unable to destroy crewed weapon with early in the game when no ptrs available. When i decrew weapon that i dont need. Must be a way to destroy it or it will give advantage to other player.
6 Apr 2015, 23:16 PM
#469
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


Speaking purely from experience, I have a huge issue with ptrs killing off retreating squads. Units tend to retreat when they are at 1-2 men at low health. So if a ptrs squad is in the retreat path of say a retreating grenadier squad, its almost comparable to shock troopers.

If these changes were to stay, ptrs needs a big nerf vs retreating units, more than standard rifles. And of course fixing how they blow up crew weapons.


If any unit is chasing a retreating squad wit 1-2 models with low health it's probably gonna get wiped. At least you can't fire on the move a PTRS.
7 Apr 2015, 01:22 AM
#470
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470

idk, i quite often see that one damn model make it out even though i have 4 or 5 squads firing at it from mid range.
7 Apr 2015, 02:04 AM
#471
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1


Speaking purely from experience, I have a huge issue with ptrs killing off retreating squads. Units tend to retreat when they are at 1-2 men at low health. So if a ptrs squad is in the retreat path of say a retreating grenadier squad, its almost comparable to shock troopers.

If these changes were to stay, ptrs needs a big nerf vs retreating units, more than standard rifles. And of course fixing how they blow up crew weapons.

Just like if cons were retreating at 1-2 men at low health while LMG grens firing at them, right?

They don't shoot on the move which means that you got encircled/flanked. If it is so then it is fine that you lose your retreating squad.
7 Apr 2015, 03:27 AM
#472
avatar of van Voort
Honorary Member Badge

Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2

This all predicates the absurd metaphor that people are making presuming that this is just Axis whining. When in fact giving it more AI power has unveiled larger, arguably game breaking issues.


Oh it's not just Axis whining

Some of it is "there is a new thing and I can't cope"


Too early to say if it is OP or not
7 Apr 2015, 07:30 AM
#473
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8


Speaking purely from experience, I have a huge issue with ptrs killing off retreating squads. Units tend to retreat when they are at 1-2 men at low health. So if a ptrs squad is in the retreat path of say a retreating grenadier squad, its almost comparable to shock troopers.

If these changes were to stay, ptrs needs a big nerf vs retreating units, more than standard rifles. And of course fixing how they blow up crew weapons.

Thats the issue of retreating too late.
There is no in game rule that makes you retreat at 1-2 low health models, if you lost squad on retreat and the cause wasn't AI tank or rifle blob on your rear, then its likely your fault for not taking into account the weapon capabilities of infantry facing you.

That is the most common cause for my squad losses(outside of stray mortar landing in the middle of my squads, mortars are extremely common recently, don't you think?).

And no, PTRS cons are nowhere near shocks when it comes to hitting/killing retreating units-its just a hit or miss and it usually is a miss because of def modifier on retreat.
7 Apr 2015, 08:24 AM
#474
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440

,

You are wrong. guards with PTRS/lmg beats Ober with lmg head on. That should not be like that and it is fair enough considering their price difference, time they arrive, and teching Obers require and guards not.


guards are doctrinal and NO they dont beat Ober with lmg head on. NEIN
7 Apr 2015, 08:34 AM
#475
avatar of KurtWilde
Donator 11

Posts: 440



Yes I did. And I think that game effectively illustrated the issues regarding PTRS's and weapons teams as well as their great strength, which IMO is an unintended consequence of buffing guards creating a situation which is contrary to the spirit of the game.

What's your opinion? Or did you just come to watch the show?


the show? your whining is the show? I came to read and learn and I also read Cpl S's guide, which you clearly have not read. I don't think guards PTRS are OP, its just decent again. I am using guards again almost after a year. In a few weeks people would have figured how to deal with them. there is no need to whine about it because they are not OP. I think a million people before me told you what a PTRs is, oui?
7 Apr 2015, 09:05 AM
#476
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



the show? your whining is the show? I came to read and learn and I also read Cpl S's guide, which you clearly have not read. I don't think guards PTRS are OP, its just decent again. I am using guards again almost after a year. In a few weeks people would have figured how to deal with them. there is no need to whine about it because they are not OP. I think a million people before me told you what a PTRs is, oui?


lol :)
7 Apr 2015, 09:21 AM
#477
avatar of pugzii

Posts: 513

Not OP, just bad design means wep teams get messed up bruf.
7 Apr 2015, 10:31 AM
#478
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Ptrs is not AT weapon. It was antinothing, now it became AI at least with ability to sometimes hurt 222 or halftruck. So please stop calling it AT weapon or bad design. Ptrs antinothing was really bad design.
7 Apr 2015, 10:51 AM
#479
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2015, 10:31 AMNEVEC
Ptrs is not AT weapon. It was antinothing, now it became AI at least with ability to sometimes hurt 222 or halftruck. So please stop calling it AT weapon or bad design. Ptrs antinothing was really bad design.

Hard to disagree with that.
Conscripts suddenly scale into late game and hells gates open loose-and on top of that its just conscripts-no heavy armor, no ISU, no arty, no elite infantry, no T34/85, no heavy mortar, nothing remotely useful late game except cons being able to actually fight against infantry
.
All three other factions blob their LMGs sniping models left and right-apparently that is the good design as I see no threads complaining about LMGs overperforming all other infantry weapons, but a doctrine that offers nothing in terms of late game and allows worst infantry in game to actually keep relevance after 10 minutes? The bleed from anus is unstoppable.

Adjust targeting for crews instead of weapon if you are unable to watch over white bar below blue bar and call it a day.

Calling PTRS an AT weapon is plain wrong-last TWO YEARS have clearly shown us its not one.
7 Apr 2015, 12:47 PM
#480
avatar of akula

Posts: 589

Con blob with PTRS is a joke now, just way too cost effective for the killing power afforded.
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