PTRS now OP?
4 Apr 2015, 13:05 PM
#321
Posts: 390 | Subs: 2
PTRS apologists are no better than defenders of the original Tiger Ace.
4 Apr 2015, 13:14 PM
#322
Posts: 8
While the ptrs needs to be fixed, why would you want to make a doctrine useless? That just makes the game boring.
I never said that I WANT that commander to be useless,
but when they fix ptrs for cons, that commander don't offer anything useful to any soviet player. They all take it only because it's only commander that gives conscripts ptrs
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4 Apr 2015, 13:34 PM
#323
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
I wish we had purchasing stats for that Commander. Barring a slight modifier for war spoils. It'd be fun to see the trend
4 Apr 2015, 13:55 PM
#324
1 Posts: 2885
Truth is that sending support weapon to fight without repairs is as stupid as playing without medics. And it was that way even in vcoh...
4 Apr 2015, 14:06 PM
#325
Posts: 627
I like the way people call the PTRS being able to actually hit things a bug. Really shows off the kind of mind set we're dealing with here.
4 Apr 2015, 14:15 PM
#326
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
I like the way people call the PTRS being able to actually hit things a bug. Really shows off the kind of mind set we're dealing with here.
they're hitting the wrong things, or at least dealing absurd damage to said things.
4 Apr 2015, 14:16 PM
#327
Posts: 1702
Ok, so i found out that the PTRS doesn't actually *target* the support weapon itself when it shoots at it, the reason why it damages support weapons is because shots that missed are likely to scatter into the gun itself.
Which is also why a PTRS shot that rolled a "miss" can still end up hitting the target due to the way scatter works.
Also, the PTRS always has been destroying support weapons like this. Only that before nobody was blobbing PTRS units like mad.
Which is also why a PTRS shot that rolled a "miss" can still end up hitting the target due to the way scatter works.
Also, the PTRS always has been destroying support weapons like this. Only that before nobody was blobbing PTRS units like mad.
4 Apr 2015, 14:19 PM
#328
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
Ok, so i found out that the PTRS doesn't actually *target* the support weapon itself when it shoots at it, the reason why it damages support weapons is because shots that missed are likely to scatter into the gun itself.
Which is also why a PTRS shot that rolled a "miss" can still end up hitting the target due to the way scatter works.
Also, the PTRS always has been destroying support weapons like this. Only that before nobody was blobbing PTRS units like mad.
so, essentially support weapons have a... magnetic effect to them, which is also improving the odds of a destroyed gun?
what were your research methods, and test environment?
also, i sorta disagree on feel with your point about past tense. i feel the new tweaks are also causing some issues.
4 Apr 2015, 14:22 PM
#329
Posts: 1702
so, essentially support weapons have a... magnetic effect to them, which is also improving the odds of a destroyed gun?
what were your research methods, and test environment?
Well, let me explain how tank hits work. Tanks have a scatter value, which affects how far away the shot can actually miss. Their accuracy is pretty pathetic, something like 5% , which means that a tank will only directly hit an infantry unit 5% of the time. Yet they end up hitting infantry alot more, since tanks have a large AOE, they end up doing damage to infantry even if the gun "rolled a miss" due to the shot scattering close to the infantry unit.
Same with the PTRS guns, they dont work as small arms in the game, which means that if they miss the crew, the shot will hit something else instead, maybe a piece of cover, a house, another crew member , or sometimes a support weapon.
This also means that the PTRS performs higher than it's DPS stats show, because scattering shots can still hit infantry units sometimes.
4 Apr 2015, 14:30 PM
#330
Posts: 2779
PTRS apologists are no better than defenders of the original Tiger Ace.
This.
4 Apr 2015, 14:34 PM
#331
Posts: 1283 | Subs: 4
Well, let me explain how tank hits work. Tanks have a scatter value, which affects how far away the shot can actually miss. Their accuracy is pretty pathetic, something like 5% , which means that a tank will only directly hit an infantry unit 5% of the time. Yet they end up hitting infantry alot more, since tanks have a large AOE, they end up doing damage to infantry even if the gun "rolled a miss" due to the shot scattering close to the infantry unit.
Same with the PTRS guns, they dont work as small arms in the game, which means that if they miss the crew, the shot will hit something else instead, maybe a piece of cover, a house, another crew member , or sometimes a support weapon.
This also means that the PTRS performs higher than it's DPS stats show, because scattering shots can still hit infantry units sometimes.
mmm ok, i was under the impression they worked like small arms.
so, potentially by adding more squad spacing (an issue bigger than just the ptrs, and I'm sure something people have been clamoring for) or by changing the weapons hit box, may be the way to tone down the amount of gun wrecks?
4 Apr 2015, 15:06 PM
#332
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Well, let me explain how tank hits work. Tanks have a scatter value, which affects how far away the shot can actually miss. Their accuracy is pretty pathetic, something like 5% , which means that a tank will only directly hit an infantry unit 5% of the time. Yet they end up hitting infantry alot more, since tanks have a large AOE, they end up doing damage to infantry even if the gun "rolled a miss" due to the shot scattering close to the infantry unit.
Same with the PTRS guns, they dont work as small arms in the game, which means that if they miss the crew, the shot will hit something else instead, maybe a piece of cover, a house, another crew member , or sometimes a support weapon.
This also means that the PTRS performs higher than it's DPS stats show, because scattering shots can still hit infantry units sometimes.
Actually, yeah, that makes perfect sense. The target size of the heavy weapons are pretty big (20), so I think that would cause missed PTRS shots to frequently hit the weapon.
4 Apr 2015, 16:55 PM
#333
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Guys, give it up, it is quite obvious to everyone that the PTRS cannot keep its current stats when wielded by cons. It would be like giving the lmg34 upgrade to volksgrenediers. The lmg34 is fine on the obersoldatan, because the squad itself is expensive and not spammable. But give this upgrade to a much cheaper squad that you WILL have at least 3-4 of on the field at all times and you have an OP upgrade. Not to mention that lmg34 on volks would have an lmg squad that can build green cover, much in the same way that PTRS on cons gives you a squad that can sprint into their weapons' optimal range.
The conscripts aren't the problem and the PTRS isn't the problem. The problem is giving such a potent AI upgrade to such a weak squad that can benefit so immensely from it.
4.992 4.16 1.8304 REAL PTRS DPS
5.203 2.611 1.968 Kar Gren
You are basically giving them a Gren Kar with a better profile at mid range. By far it doesn't have a close damage to any LMG.
The problem is not the damage it is dealing to infantry, the problem is that it's sniping support weapons (instead of the crew).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
4 Apr 2015, 17:08 PM
#334
Posts: 2561
Ok, so i found out that the PTRS doesn't actually *target* the support weapon itself when it shoots at it, the reason why it damages support weapons is because shots that missed are likely to scatter into the gun itself.So that means all that needs to be done is to increase scatter and everything should be fine. It's not like they need low scatter since their accuracy will hit vehicles aalmost every time anyway.
Which is also why a PTRS shot that rolled a "miss" can still end up hitting the target due to the way scatter works.
Also, the PTRS always has been destroying support weapons like this. Only that before nobody was blobbing PTRS units like mad.
4 Apr 2015, 17:37 PM
#335
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Actually, yeah, that makes perfect sense. The target size of the heavy weapons are pretty big (20), so I think that would cause missed PTRS shots to frequently hit the weapon.
PTRS always hit team weapon before the changes as well.
Difference is, it was nearly extinct weapon as the only target it could engage was light vehicles, which had plenty of time to move to other side of the map before being destroyed.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
4 Apr 2015, 18:14 PM
#336
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
PTRS always hit team weapon before the changes as well.
Difference is, it was nearly extinct weapon as the only target it could engage was light vehicles, which had plenty of time to move to other side of the map before being destroyed.
Yeah, you're right, looking at some older videos.
4 Apr 2015, 19:48 PM
#337
Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1
I like the way people call the PTRS being able to actually hit things a bug. Really shows off the kind of mind set we're dealing with here.
The problem isn't the PTRS hitting things, it's the fact you can get a massive blob of them and sprint around the map 1 shotting crew weapons, killing enemy mediums insanely fast, and smash apart enemy infantry as well.
Remember the PTRS isn't bad V medium tanks in numbers, I killed 6 Ostwinds with them in a game I had last night, as well as a Panther and DPS'd a KT down to almost no health so an AT gun could finish it off.
4 Apr 2015, 19:51 PM
#338
Posts: 3552 | Subs: 2
I like the way people call the PTRS being able to actually hit things a bug. Really shows off the kind of mind set we're dealing with here.
960 MP + a couple of hundred munitions counters beats 210 MP unit
Film at 11
Resident Soviet Whiner and Grand Master Bias Jedi; General Secretary of the Soviet Whine Hydra Collective; Axis Hating Sheeple; Allied Butt Buddy! Collect Them All!
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
Also the African Branch of TAB Bulletins
PS: The Italian Army fought with courage and skill
4 Apr 2015, 20:02 PM
#339
Posts: 1617
960 MP + a couple of hundred munitions counters beats 210 MP unit
Film at 11
COH 2 shouldn't be about blobs moving around insta gibbing everything
4 Apr 2015, 20:04 PM
#340
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
COH 2 shouldn't be about blobs moving around insta gibbing everything
CoH1 was and everyone praises it like it was the best thing ever since the invention of beer.
You can't really counter blobs other way then by using something that instantly gibs them like demos, stuka, offmaps, pin planes(not really gibs them, but you can do anything you want with them after).
As long as there is no "negative zeal" that would INCREASE rec accuracy on the blobbed squads, the blobbing will always persist.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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