Real Talk: Panther

Yes it's the designated role of a panther to dive into enemy territory and destroy fuel units (there is even an achievement for that), thus it's called tank hunter and not tank destroyers, which are defensive units. Nerf it and you won't see it again, like it once was. Congratulations, you now made the game more dull and less versatile.

It's the first choice of OKW players, because raketenwerfers don't cut it and the JP4 doesn't do well against an IS2, which you see in about 50 % of the games.
It's the first choice because shermans, t34s come out around 10 minutes while panthers come out around minute 15. Why would you ever go for a SU85 first? It's needed to counter tanks, not to wreak havoc among infantry, which is what you want to do in early game.

And its the designated roll of the Sherman to DIVE INTO enemy territory to kill infantry and support guns! Lets give it 325 Armor and 800-960 HPs so it can do this and Blitz and make it faster to boot! We shall call it an Infantry Hunter and raise the cost to 170 fuel!

See the problem there?

The Panther does EXACTLY what you mentioned. And 9/10 times it will cause casualties or gain vet through damage with no serious repercussions. Combine this with its ease of use and you have the complaints you see in this thread.

Remember when it was "useless" due to nerfs it was given the Pen it now enjoys. Before it was "useless" it didnt have such a high Pen. So why does it get to enjoy it now?

To better fight the IS2? Cool so what did it give up in return? Nothing. Its just more effective then it was BEFORE the nerf and there has been no touching of any of its other attributes.

That would be akin to Guards getting their old Button back and then another buff just thrown in "Because"

Which is why I suggest a cost DECREASE as well as a Performance DECREASE or a rebalance of its attributes increasing its DPS but lowering its silly level of surviability. That is the biggest problem especially and primarily with how OKW gets to enjoy the Panther.

I imagine if Ost could build it in its second building that also served as Area Denial they would use them every game too.

And as I said before late war German metallurgy sucked. Fact. So there is your lore reason for less armor on the OKW side.

Just imagine! If they lowered its Armor and increased its DPS it would work BETTER against P47 spammers! Because it could do damage faster and the P47 gives no shits about its armor! See the Benefits!

But no one wants to even consider that idea. Rather just buff USF Pen and further make Ostheer Mediums marginalized due to the proliferation of this one unit...

Remember when it was "useless" due to nerfs it was given the Pen it now enjoys. Before it was "useless" it didnt have such a high Pen. So why does it get to enjoy it now?

That argument is weak. It used to have high penetration before, even at range. Increasing the penetration further barely changed anything. Only in one situation it could have an effect (IS-2). A mild buff, not noticeable in 90% of all engagements.

Imagine someone would like to increase the penetration of the the Jackson and to balance it, decrease its armor. That would in effect just be a buff, because everything penetrates anyway.

The Panther was over-nerfed in the last patch. It still is WAY weaker than it used to be in 2013.

And as I said before late war German metallurgy sucked. Fact. So there is your lore reason for less armor on the OKW side.

That´s a myth. Fact. The quality on Panthers etc. remained largely good. The King Tiger had this problem though.

...

That's some lucky Su85

How many times did you made the test at max range for that to happen? The "all shots penetrated" is some BS or unlikely situation. We are talking about 6-9% of that happening (depending on distance).

That's why he said 8 shots and (he should had said) 4 shots on average to kill.

8x4.25 = 34s You have 56-62% chance on pen, therefore a rough 60%.
4x7.5 = 32s You have 100% pen.

Panther is being looked at

I dont know how it will change

But a reliable source sais a nurf is very likely

The "all shots penetrated" is some BS or unlikely situation.

Oh, you mean he is lying?

We are talking about 6-9% of that happening (depending on distance).

Replay please.

That's some lucky Su85

How many times did you made the test at max range for that to happen? The "all shots penetrated" is some BS or unlikely situation. We are talking about 6-9% of that happening (depending on distance).

That's why he said 8 shots and (he should had said) 4 shots on average to kill.

8x4.25 = 34s You have 56-62% chance on pen, therefore a rough 60%.
4x7.5 = 32s You have 100% pen.

All in 3 trial, I just take the best trial, because in once both Panther and SU missed like drunk, it takes more than 1 min to kill its target.
Both in 3 trial, they just tend to miss but not bouncing shot off.

Panther vet 0 armour effectiveness is greatly exaggerated by Allies fanboy, I never have problems against them.

Panther is being looked at

I dont know how it will change

But a reliable source sais a nurf is very likely

Jesus, they just never seem to get it right.

That argument is weak. It used to have high penetration before, even at range. Increasing the penetration further barely changed anything. Only in one situation it could have an effect (IS-2). A mild buff, not noticeable in 90% of all engagements.

Imagine someone would like to increase the penetration of the the Jackson and to balance it, decrease its armor. That would in effect just be a buff, because everything penetrates anyway.

The Panther was over-nerfed in the last patch. It still is WAY weaker than it used to be in 2013.

That´s a myth. Fact. The quality on Panthers etc. remained largely good. The King Tiger had this problem though.

So you wouldnt be amiss if they removed that and gave it the prenerf values? Cool lets do that then...

And while we are at it do that things to Guards I mentioned I am sure no one would have a problem with that. And please deliver my 170 fuel Super sherman...

Edit:

And I got to point this out again because its giving me NO END of amusement. No one wants to address the DPS elephant in the room. Again whats wrong with giving it more DPS and less armor? Ohhhh then it wouldnt be as easy to keep alive! I cant get over how many times thats been dodged.

Sure, lets nerf the panther. The thing I am missing here is the compensation. Maybe there is a reason why Axis needs strong tanks. Mabye Allied early game is too strong. Maybe we should look at that too. If you nerf Axis tanks you have to restrict Rifle and Conscript dominance.

That's a good point, JoeH. But some kids want to have the cake and eat it too.

The panther itself is perfectly fine. Infact for ostheer its a bit too hard to get. But the OKW panther is overperforming.


Why? Due to the retarded combat blitz which makes it so easy to escape danger with it.

Why is OKW blitz better than ostheer blitz? FailFish

USF just needs a better AT gun.

agreed. do not nerf the panther, buff the 57mm.

Sure, lets nerf the panther. The thing I am missing here is the compensation. Maybe there is a reason why Axis needs strong tanks. Mabye Allied early game is too strong. Maybe we should look at that too. If you nerf Axis tanks you have to restrict Rifle and Conscript dominance.

Well, OKW has no excuse on that front. As for Ostheer; I'm not an expert on the 1v1 dynamics, but in 2v2 and above the problem is not as apparent. I'm not denying it, but it's not blatantly obvious as Panther and its impact on 2v2 and above.

That's a good point, JoeH. But some kids want to have the cake and eat it too.

That's your imagination. I said it earlier myself that Ostheer may have problems but that does not justify an OP Panther. Conversely, an OP Panther does not justify a large selection of non-viable units.

Eh. Ostheer "might" not just have problems, OH has very real and tangible problems. In fact on a majority of maps(Kharkov (especially north), both Semois, La Gleize, Ferma Winter, Stalingrad, Faymonville West and Stalingrad OH is at a quite severe disadvantage.

It is under performing, not OP. That's your imagination.

Well, OKW has no excuse on that front. As for Ostheer; I'm not an expert on the 1v1 dynamics, but in 2v2 and above the problem is not as apparent. I'm not denying it, but it's not blatantly obvious as Panther and its impact on 2v2 and above.



That's your imagination. I said it earlier myself that Ostheer may have problems but that does not justify an OP Panther. Conversely, an OP Panther does not justify a large selection of non-viable units.

And you still claim that shit is OP, fine.

I sit back to take some popcorn from this thread.

Stop giving this frustrated kid your attention. He des not deserve it.

Stop giving this frustrated kid your attention. He des not deserve it.

Frustrated? You're the one who's been trolling this thread constantly since you joined. Do you see the irony here?

All in 3 trial, I just take the best trial, because in once both Panther and SU missed like drunk, it takes more than 1 min to kill its target.
Both in 3 trial, they just tend to miss but not bouncing shot off.

Panther vet 0 armour effectiveness is greatly exaggerated by Allies fanboy, I never have problems against them.

But that's not how statistics work. It's as common to get a Panther killed by a Su85 on 5 shots as to take 10+ shots (bounces and misses)

Panther is being looked at

I dont know how it will change

But a reliable source sais a nurf is very likely

Good,ostheer needs this.And a lmg42 nerf,that should do it.
Congratulations is-2 and jackson.I mean u guys already laugh at tigers and pz 4,now last toothless cat to join the ranks.
Already ost worst lategame infantry,worst lategame artillery and now worst armor too..even though currently its only 3rd best.
Its best that all ostheer players just leave this game.