Schwerer so broken, will it be fixed in the upcoming patch?

... advice: you don't have to be so desperate to kill that T4 from minute one. AVOID IT! WITH ONE FUEL POINT SECURED OKW WILL STILL GET LESS FUEL THAN YOU GET! Take the rest of territory ...

People act like their main and only tactic is to cut off or secure OKW's fuel, and without that they can't even play the game. Newsflash: You can cap the rest of the map in the mean time.

There is a problem with your usf guide. How im supposed to use ground attack if schwerer is behind shot blocker?

The shot blocker is functioning in both ways. If you can't shoot it, it can't shoot you either, can he? Your opponent will not surround it with shot blockers or else it is useless for him too. So you will place your gun(s) in such way that they can hit it.

Protect with AA and hmg? You do realize that at gun denies hmg and aa + hmg denies at gun?
You gonna say, play airborne, im gonna say, its broken to get doctrine to counter building.

I'm not sure I understand what you described. What I ment, is protect your base of fire (1 or 2 AT guns) with some units - what you think is more effective. He won't storm you with light vehicles because eather he probably won't have more than one - and you have 2 AT guns there, what the hell - , so you have to protect them with some AI units. Examples are manny you can use anything you want, from riflemen and ad-hoc fighting position to AA or stuart. It won't be easy to throw you back from this position and you will be outside Fhq area of action too.

In theory. South spawn for usf on faymonville. Okw wires blocking stone Wall, schwerer behind building in the middle, covered by pak43 almost in base.

So you said at guns, aye?

Maps are maps, you can veto 3 of 'em.

The shot blocker is functioning in both ways. If you can't shoot it, it can't shoot you either, can he? Your opponent will not surround it with shot blockers or else it is useless for him too. So you will place your gun(s) in such way that they can hit it.



I'm not sure I understand what you described. What I ment, is protect your base of fire (1 or 2 AT guns) with some units - what you think is more effective. He won't storm you with light vehicles because eather he probably won't have more than one - and you have 2 AT guns there, what the hell - , so you have to protect them with some AI units. Examples are manny you can use anything you want, from riflemen and ad-hoc fighting position to AA or stuart. It won't be easy to throw you back from this position and you will be outside Fhq area of action too.



Maps are maps, you can veto 3 of 'em.

Good shot blocker works only in one way, like on faymonville. You cant shoot it but once you will try to get cut off, it will shoot you.

And you still losing one big point.
Going for at gun means no AI (mg, m20 or aa) not to mention at mine but thats of pure shit design of usf.

Maps are maps but on most of them you can find such spot like on faymonville.

And you still losing one big point.
Going for at gun means no AI (mg, m20 or aa) not to mention at mine but thats of pure shit design of usf.

I say again, you can use anything to protect the gun(s). You can have one, it will work slower, you can have 2 it will work faster. I admit it's harder in 1v1 but in 2v2 it should not be such a problem.
Anyway, if we just want things to be easier, I can understand you. But not cheese-easier, that won't be ok.

By the way, I observed that generally allied players are massing to destroy advanced hq OKW buildings the moment they spoted it. Some times it works, some times it has the opposite result (allied take heavy loses and they will not recover in time). Like I said, it's not mandatory to do it. You can avoid them and accept a 50 - 50 map percent stalemate with OKW untill you got stronger and can go for a push that will wipe its buildings. You can boost your resources, he can't without painfull sacrifices. For such a scenario I follow a completely different approach. Of course you will work harder than the OKW player and the success is not guarantee in this way eather, but if you want an invincible receipt, you picked the wrong game .

Still OKW is leading the race.

Oh it's OP you say. Cool, imma try it out then and win bigtime. Started playing OKW now even though it's not my cup of tea and have been spanked so far. I hate the commanders and the handicapness of being forced run around with volks (what else can OKW do really). No mg: s, no mortars, no snipers, no field reinforcement. It does limit options and lots of adjustments required for new gameplan.

I think of it as education in finer understanding of OKW.:/

Oh it's OP you say. Cool, imma try it out then and win bigtime. Started playing OKW now even though it's not my cup of tea and have been spanked so far. I hate the commanders and the handicapness of being forced run around with volks (what else can OKW do really). No mg: s, no mortars, no snipers, no field reinforcement. It does limit options and lots of adjustments required for new gameplan.

I think of it as education in finer understanding of OKW.:/

No mg? You cant be serious. There is Kubel which is pure pain in the ass on maps like minsk pocket. Mg comes with 2 doctrines and of them is fortification, the Best one.

You have leig instead of mortar.

Okw lacks of snipers but jaegers fill this role in some kind.

No field reinforcement? What about med truck?

Oh it's OP you say. Cool, imma try it out then and win bigtime. Started playing OKW now even though it's not my cup of tea and have been spanked so far.

Really? Maybe against CPU? 'Cause I can't see no OKW play in your player card. If you think CPU is spanking you hard while playing OKW (LOL) wait to meet some competent allied players. I think untill then you should play against CPU some more and go against players when you won against "Expert". I never went into a real fight with a faction before winning against CPU on "Expert" level.

I hate the commanders and the handicapness of being forced run around with volks (what else can OKW do really). No mg: s, no mortars, no snipers, no field reinforcement. It does limit options and lots of adjustments required for new gameplan.

Don't worry, you are not the first who was hit in the face by the reality when he tried to play with the faction he never played before. I experienced such shocks too, when I played with soviets and USF and I'm still playing them almost everytime I play COH. 'Fact is there are some people here who aren't playing the game at all, let alone they should experience all factions, and still have opinions.

You want to remove OKW's trucks, and you think the reduced income isn't a disadvantage.

Okay

And the thing with Bunker and FP spam isn't that you can move one AT gun up and clear it, it's that you have multiple Bunkers and FP's all covering each other so you can't flank them while Rifles + rear's in the FP's can deal with any AT gun pushes.

Shutting down territory with defenses is part of the game, it's never not been part of the game. At this point it's stupid to argue being able to stop the capping of cut offs and fuel somehow makes things unfair when every faction is capable of it.

You have it there. Team games. It may work in teamgames but not in actual 1v1 games where you can expect the majority of the people to use common sense and have some sort of personal skill.

You just dont want to accept that an AOE fortress is superior to lousy bunkers?

You are amazing. You are saying that leig did more damage cause of hitting tanks but I said that it did more damage against infantry as well.

Why are you saying about fighting in the forest? One unit to cap vp for better drain has nothing to do with fighting especially if you are talking ammo and then go to fight with this one squad for left vp when right vp is just next to

And no, except okw none other faction can lock down sector so easily. Soviets even dont have a bunkers so it this case locking down sector with wires, mines, demos is way more expensive and micro intensive. And the schwerer is still better than huge locking down operation from Soviets.

The Schwer is better at locking places down because OKW doesn't have any other non-doctrine defensive ability's worth a damn. I mean christ how dense do you need to be to not be able to still counter it months after WFA release when half this damn thread is people suggesting things to counter it.

And in team games it's even easier because you can concentrate a far, far higher amount of damage/DPS down on it.

Aggressive play with the Schwer should be rewarded, the same way aggression is rewarded in general. It takes time to set up, if you see him setting up and catch him you can literally kill it with shocks in less than 3 seconds.

You have it there. Team games. It may work in teamgames but not in actual 1v1 games where you can expect the majority of the people to use common sense and have some sort of personal skill.

You just dont want to accept that an AOE fortress is superior to lousy bunkers?

I guess all the times I bunker spammed with CAS in 2's never happened then. And as we know, people who play 2's have zero skill, which I'm sure Lemon/Sib/every other 2's player would agree with.

This dumb "OKW to OP" meme has gotten so out of control the Schwer, which is just as liable to shoot grasshoppers on the ground instead of any tanks or infantry is somehow unbeatable.

but jaegers fill this role in some kind

Yes, in some kind all OKW units will be able to cover all other factions' units roles. In some kind. It just so happens that this "in some kind" makes for fairly radical change of function, cost and use gameplay-wise.

Really? Maybe against CPU? 'Cause I can't see no OKW play in your player card. If you think CPU is spanking you hard while playing OKW (LOL) wait to meet some competent allied players. I think untill then you should play against CPU some more and go against players when you won against "Expert". I never went into a real fight with a faction before winning against CPU on "Expert" level.

Don't worry, you are not the first who was hit in the face by the reality when he tried to play with the faction he never played before. I experienced such shocks too, when I played with soviets and USF and I'm still playing them almost everytime I play COH. 'Fact is there are some people here who aren't playing the game at all, let alone they should experience all factions, and still have opinions.

I just started yesterday (three mp games and two against CPU= 1 win ) so maybe it hasn't registered yet. And I completely agree with your advise although I sort of jumped in the deep end anyway, knowing this. I will be doing games against the CPU as well for sure. I don't really care about stats so if losing online means learning faster then that is a good thing. But, like you're probably saying, some stuff like getting a feel for how the whole factions works and discovering that volks with shrecks don't freeze during blizzards (what?! lol) is probably less painfully learned against AI.

And I fully share the idea that actually putting time into all factions will open one's eyes about the different challenges facing each faction and be less certain and more thoughtful about balance claims.

The Schwer is better at locking places down because OKW doesn't have any other non-doctrine defensive ability's worth a damn. I mean christ how dense do you need to be to not be able to still counter it months after WFA release when half this damn thread is people suggesting things to counter it.

And in team games it's even easier because you can concentrate a far, far higher amount of damage/DPS down on it.

Aggressive play with the Schwer should be rewarded, the same way aggression is rewarded in general. It takes time to set up, if you see him setting up and catch him you can literally kill it with shocks in less than 3 seconds.



I guess all the times I bunker spammed with CAS in 2's never happened then. And as we know, people who play 2's have zero skill, which I'm sure Lemon/Sib/every other 2's player would agree with.

This dumb "OKW to OP" meme has gotten so out of control the Schwer, which is just as liable to shoot grasshoppers on the ground instead of any tanks or infantry is somehow unbeatable.

Flak emplacement. It's very good when used right. If you make it in the middle of nowhere, enemy will decrew it and use against you. I did that in 2v2 many times and it was shreding volks.
But try to make wires around so nade won't get it, and you will see how useful is that.

It's not about how to counter it. It's about time, resources and micro to get it. It needs your all attention while OKW blob is running around the map.

ISU was here for over year without nerf, allied fanboys have suggested how to counter it.
Panther spam was killing 4v4. Axis fanboys have syggested how to counter it.
Double snipres in M3 for months. Allied fanboys suggested how to counter it.
T70 running around and wiping all kind of infantry behind lines. Again, there were suggestions.

If suggestions how to counter something are enough, I want clow car again, and ultimate ISU


Why "aggressive" soviet T4 is not rewarding? Or Ostheer T3/4? And that aggressive major

Why "aggressive" soviet T4 is not rewarding? Or Ostheer T3/4? And that aggressive major

Because factions are different like you were told 100 times but you fail to understand that. Every faction has weaknesses and strengths.

As I noticed not the Schwere Panzer HQ is your problem but the units surrounding it. In this case like I said you need combined arms. Problems with a pak43? 4/6 USF commanders have offmap arty that can deal with it. Another flak protecting the Schwere panzer? Use a tank after taking the pak43 out. Infantry blob standing around somewhere? Get a scott and wipe the squads.

There is no easy blob tactic to counter combined arms, you need your own combined arms and a witty approach, for every faction.

The Schwer is better at locking places down because OKW doesn't have any other non-doctrine defensive ability's worth a damn.

Aggressive play with the Schwer should be rewarded

Soviets don't have ANY defensive bunkers either, should they have a AA gun on a truck that penetrates KTs?

Yes, rewards just enough fuel to pump out armor and tech.

The Schwer is better at locking places down because OKW doesn't have any other non-doctrine defensive ability's worth a damn. I mean christ how dense do you need to be to not be able to still counter it months after WFA release when half this damn thread is people suggesting things to counter it.

[...]

It's not like OKW doesn't have sandbags or mines or ub3rstahl wire...

Soviets don't have ANY defensive bunkers either, should they have a AA gun on a truck that penetrates KTs?

Yes, rewards just enough fuel to pump out armor and tech.

I assume you have never spammed demos as Soviets, because you can scare a opponent pretty bad by constantly wiping out half is army with them MVGame.

It's not like OKW doesn't have sandbags or mines or ub3rstahl wire...

Spam mines and see how far it gets you.

I am done arguing with Alexzandvar directly. I will instead resort to taking his statements to their logical extremes.

The Schwer is better at locking places down because OKW doesn't have any other non-doctrine defensive ability's worth a damn.

Alexzandvar: "Soviet Union desperately needs a non doctrinal 360 degree AoE building with a huge radius that can damage tanks and insta supress infantry."

I mean christ how dense do you need to be to not be able to still counter it months after WFA release when half this damn thread is people suggesting things to counter it.

Alexzandvar: "Stats don't really matter in this game. If a unit exists for a long time it automatically becomes balanced even though there haven't been any balance patches in a long time. Furthermore, if a unit can be damaged with other units, said unit automatically becomes balanced and no debate about the precise worth and usability of unit needs to take place."

Because factions are different like you were told 100 times but you fail to understand that. Every faction has weaknesses and strengths.

As I noticed not the Schwere Panzer HQ is your problem but the units surrounding it. In this case like I said you need combined arms. Problems with a pak43? 4/6 USF commanders have offmap arty that can deal with it. Another flak protecting the Schwere panzer? Use a tank after taking the pak43 out. Infantry blob standing around somewhere? Get a scott and wipe the squads.

There is no easy blob tactic to counter combined arms, you need your own combined arms and a witty approach, for every faction.

That's why OKW has weakness in resourscer income, but has cheap tech, powerful units and insane vet 5. No need for ultra bunker a ka schwerer.

Off map arty?
Recon - 120 ammo for one + ammo for recon - no late game.
Mechanized - 8CP, no late-game.
Rifle Company - only decrew.
Armor/Infantry - you cant call it barrage even, waste of muni, no recon to spot.


But the last sentence is amazing.
Volks+Obers+Panther which is the case in 70% of the OKW games + pak43 is called combined arms by you. Are you serious?


Get a Scott, use barrage, get a tanks. It's like your enemy will kindly wait for you.
Get a Scott, owned by Panther.
Get a Jackson, owned by Volks.


Early Sherman is the best way to fight agasint OKW, then a second one and pray to RNG god for wipes.

Once Panther is there, Shermans are useless, Pak43 is covering Panther and most of the time it's gg.

US Forces have so many holes in design that it's amazing they are playable faction.
Versus Ostheer they are deadly.
Versus OKW they are pudding.
That's just incredible bad design.

And like I said before, you are OKW hero, not CoH2 objective player. You have around 50-60 games as USF and hundreds as OKW so how can yoy make objective statement? You can't.

I am done arguing with Alexzandvar directly. I will instead resort to taking his statements to their logical extremes.

[...]

I've tried that and it doesn't really help.

I assume you have never spammed demos as Soviets, because you can scare a opponent pretty bad by constantly wiping out half is army with them MVGame.



Spam mines and see how far it gets you.

How does this justify Schwerer?