ostheer CAS overperforming.

So this has been bothering me for quite a while. I do know the rather shitty state of USF vs Ostheer at the moment, but that's another story of its own.


What i want to say, is that this commander is too good. Mainly two things. The anti tank strafe and the fuel transfer.


Now first lets talk about the anti tank strafe. It comes at a cost of 200, cheaper than the p-47. Yet it is much stronger than it. Infact it can almost oneshot every single USF vehicle.

Not to mention that while incredibly effective againts tanks, it's also much more effective againts againts infantry than the IL-2 sturmovik run.

In my opinion it needs to not target infantry, like the p-47, and the cost needs to be upped to 240 munitions, at the minimum, right now it's just ridiciluos.

The one time strafe of CAS needs to have it's damage reduced or something... Or cost needs to be upped.


Jesus, even stug E into tigers is not as strong as this...


The second thing is the fuel transfer. 50 fuel for 150 is really good. It is incredibly effective in 1v1s since even if you lose alot of map control, you can still get loads of LMG grens and mines down. Coupled with the strenght of PaKs, this makes this commander too strong in my opinion. However, while it is very strong in 1v1, it is downright gamebreaking in 2v2+. It completely shuts down any kind of allied artillery like B4 and ML-20, the constant spam of skill planes makes the map completely unplayable.


This needs a nerf.

When you see CAS in Ostheer's loadout, hold out on picking a commander until you are sure he has CAS, and pick either Guards motor coordination or shock rifle. Both deal with CAS really well in terms of ignoring strafes/strikes and blowing up the infantry Ostheer spends munitions on.

Its the only alternative commander other than a commander with a tiger/elefant.

I have counterattack tactics centered bulletins in my loadout to fool people into going CAS, and they later get crushed by T34/85's or IS-2's.

As for USF, do what USF does best.

Isn't CAS the doctrine where the AT-strafe is only 110 mun and only works in a stuka-like line in one run? My enemy always moves his vehicles before the plane arrives

I DONT CARE. I WANT MY HMG42 BACK. USF IS OP, USSR IS OP NERF NERF NERF.

When you see CAS in Ostheer's loadout, hold out on picking a commander until you are sure he has CAS, and pick either Guards motor coordination or shock rifle. Both deal with CAS really well in terms of ignoring strafes/strikes and blowing up the infantry Ostheer spends munitions on.

Its the only alternative commander other than a commander with a tiger/elefant.

My main issue is not really the skill planes. But rather the ability to spam out LMG grens and flame pios like mad. I know that a quick t-34 or t-70 should counter this, but really it doesn't againts good players....

This doc is one of the only things going for ost.

Its really gimmicky. You just have to understand that youre just not going to see heavy armor from ost player so you can invest in something equally gimmicky like 2 AA Hts to scott spam or something like that.

In team games...a lot of things are broken and this is at the bottom of that list tbh

I like playing against people who pick CAS, it means no Ass grens/StuG E or tiger/tiger ace. Most players also rely on the Muni conversion too much which means you have a fairly good window to bleed him with an early Sherman before he can even begin to afford a Panther.

I love going CAS in 1v1s but it does have many drawbacks. The reason I love playing it so much is it allows me to not tech up past t2 and rely on solely infantry for the whole game. That's not a play style that you see often in coh2 but its a lot of fun.

The AT strafe is actually pretty awful. In probably 10+ 1v1s with CAS I don't think I've ever managed to destroy a U.S. vehicle with it. It costs a ton and is incredibly easy to dodge. 110(?) muni is incredibly expensive for an easily readable one-pass ability. As others have said you are probably confusing it with the very strong strafe in lightning war and possibly other docs as well.

Skill plane wins for Axis only n00bs in team games. CAS is abomination right now.

has a 45 minute 2v2. where that okw player was able to field a KT and JT

Yea. its needs some work

This is a problem in 1v1, too? I wholeheartedly agree about CAS commander being OP in 2v2+ though.

The supposed drawback of lesser amount of tanks might as well be non existent in 2v2+.

35 muni single run recon plane. death from above in terms of kamikaze attacks.
60 muni suppressing run, which can suppress/pin, using AOE suppression, the entire army in one screen size worth.
110 muni JU87-AT Strafe that has very good chance of destroying any tanks/vehicles below 800hp.
160 muni stuka dive bomb artillery nullifier.

Apparent counter, AA units don't work.

So gimmicky and unfun to play against.

CAS anti-tank, OP? Wut?

160 muni stuka dive bomb artillery nullifier.

You don't need this really.
CAS AT strafe will destroy any arty effortlessly, so while before you had to use 190 mun for it, now you need just 140 to make 600mp go bye bye.

Such balance, much relic.

So this has been bothering me for quite a while. I do know the rather shitty state of USF vs Ostheer at the moment, but that's another story of its own.


What i want to say, is that this commander is too good. Mainly two things. The anti tank strafe and the fuel transfer.


Now first lets talk about the anti tank strafe. It comes at a cost of 200, cheaper than the p-47. Yet it is much stronger than it. Infact it can almost oneshot every single USF vehicle.

Not to mention that while incredibly effective againts tanks, it's also much more effective againts againts infantry than the IL-2 sturmovik run.

In my opinion it needs to not target infantry, like the p-47, and the cost needs to be upped to 240 munitions, at the minimum, right now it's just ridiciluos.

The one time strafe of CAS needs to have it's damage reduced or something... Or cost needs to be upped.


Jesus, even stug E into tigers is not as strong as this...


The second thing is the fuel transfer. 50 fuel for 150 is really good. It is incredibly effective in 1v1s since even if you lose alot of map control, you can still get loads of LMG grens and mines down. Coupled with the strenght of PaKs, this makes this commander too strong in my opinion. However, while it is very strong in 1v1, it is downright gamebreaking in 2v2+. It completely shuts down any kind of allied artillery like B4 and ML-20, the constant spam of skill planes makes the map completely unplayable.


This needs a nerf.

I use CAS a lot so let me break it down:

CAS is primarily used for (at least in my case) to counter Artillery happy allied players.

The JU-87 and its 37mm AT strafe is one pass and a skillshot and has a very long cooldown
(I believe its 80s)

This being the case unless your tank is right on the edge of the map you normally wont have trouble dodging it if your micro is at least decent.
In team setups however, It is essential to have to prevent B-4 spamming cheese.

The AI strafe is IMO the strongest part of the doctrine as it lets you spam LMG's and win every engagement vs US rifle spam. While this is a cheesy solution It is currently one of the only effective ones as boxes are now not worth the doctrine choice if you discount the OKW fuel boosting.
(Also a cheese strat)

This is the only Wehrmacht doctrine that gets a AI strafe other than Assault support and that is also now a joke due to the nerfs to the Opal truck and tiger just not being the tank it used to be.

Fuel to muni transfer is the same as its always been, You are cutting tanks on a faction with already high fuel costs.

And finally the effective stuka dive bomb.

At the end of the day When playing on a team you must have it equipped for B4's or Arty spam.

Shock rifle frontline counters this very well, As well as good kat truck play.
ISU-152 if cared for properly will absolutely shit on this as he wont have many tanks if any.

If you must infantry blob vs this, the AI strafe can be dodged so its not a auto win 1 click like the
Opal one is.

For USF Scotts work great, As well as bulldozer Shermans. HE Shermans can work too.

And demo's are generally very effective vs this type of play.

So gimmicky and unfun to play against.

FHQ and B-4 in team games are very unfun to play against as well when you don't have proper counters at your disposal. Especially against a coordinated team. The fact that B-4 Has the potential to 1 shot a JT,KT,TA is broken since it has precision strike and is smokeless.

Wish LeFH was even close to being as good since it costs the same its kinda a joke.

CAS AT strafe will destroy any arty effortlessly

This is also correct the 110 MU 37mm strafe will 1 shot Fixed guns 95% of the time (It can fail due to it being on a weird hill incline or behind trees or a building)

I use CAS a lot so let me break it down:

CAS is primarily used for (at least in my case) to counter Artillery happy allied players.

The JU-87 and its 37mm AT strafe is one pass and a skillshot and has a very long cooldown
(I believe its 80s)

This being the case unless your tank is right on the edge of the map you normally wont have trouble dodging it if your micro is at least decent.
In team setups however, It is essential to have to prevent B-4 spamming cheese.

The AI strafe is IMO the strongest part of the doctrine as it lets you spam LMG's and win every engagement vs US rifle spam. While this is a cheesy solution It is currently one of the only effective ones as boxes are now not worth the doctrine choice if you discount the OKW fuel boosting.
(Also a cheese strat)

This is the only Wehrmacht doctrine that gets a AI strafe other than Assault support and that is also now a joke due to the nerfs to the Opal truck and tiger just not being the tank is used to be.

Fuel to muni transfer is the same as its always been, You are cutting tanks on a faction with already high fuel costs.

And finally the effective stuka dive bomb.

At the end of the day When playing on a team you must have it equipped for B4's or Arty spam.

Shock rifle frontline counters this very well, As well as good kat truck play.
ISU-152 if cared for properly will absolutely shit on this as he wont have many tanks if any.

If you must infantry blob vs this, the AI strafe can be dodged so its not a auto win 1 click like the
Opal one is.

For USF Scotts work great, As well as bulldozer Shermans. HE Shermans can work too.

And demo's are generally very effective vs this type of play.



FHQ and B-4 in team games are very unfun to play against as well when you don't have proper counters at your disposal. Especially against a coordinated team. The fact that B-4 Has the potential to 1 shot a JT,KT,TA is broken since it has precision strike and is smokeless.

Wish LeFH was even close to being as good since it costs the same its kinda a joke.


This is also correct the 110 MU 37mm strafe will 1 shot Fixed guns 95% of the time (It can fail due to it being on a weird hill incline or behind trees or a building)

Like i said, i mostly play 1v1s and the main issue i have is the horrid LMG gren spam that you cannot prevent no matter how much early game control you get.

I DONT CARE. I WANT MY HMG42 BACK. USF IS OP, USSR IS OP NERF NERF NERF.

Soviets OP

CAS just hard counters USF in team games, Riflemen can get pinned, Jacksons get one shotted by AT strafe, Stuka vs Ambulance or Preists.

Doctrine has been out over a year and now a OP thread? Too late breh...

It's not op because you can't get tanks out, that's the main drawback, if you fail to utilize on that, you deserve to lose.

The AT strafe can be dodged since it's not loitering - also not OP. Likewise you could complain that the IL2 bombing strike is op because it one shots tanks.

I dont find CAS OP.
It's fun.
AT strafe combined with teller or pzfaust is amazing.
Insta suppress whole blob.
Cheap recon.
And the mighty fuel to ammo conversion.

But is late game, vs for example ISU, it might be damn hard without few Pz4 or Panther.

The problem is thath AA units don't work. Plane will always do a strafe run.
I mean, if you go for Air doctrine, it should be risky. If enemy makes AA unit, it should sometimes prevent strikes.

I think it's the loiter anti tank run that's wrong. The Strafe can be dodged at least. Even though the damage is insane.